[Rob Instigator]

yeah, I also rail against my government using my tax dollars to kill. always have always will. do a search. learn before you accuse.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the issue here is: 12 journalists got killed in the name of religion for making cartoons.

And literally hundreds of millions of Muslims wanted to throw up when they heard about it.

[!@#$%!]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybo...w_Mohammed_Day

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

And literally hundreds of millions of Muslims wanted to throw up when they heard about it.

that's great. now let us all post pictures of mohammed.

[dead_battery]

pimples is a good example of what racism means to white rich anglosphere liberals - its a prohibition on expression of the fact that at their core, all other humans in existence (except poor whites/conservatives) are not white anglosphere liberals or aspiring to turn into them.

is the idea that if we only dont express 'racism' against people who are murdering others due to gently mocking their non existent god then they'll be wowed by our moral superiority and see the (en)light(enment)?

because guess what. this is gonna be really really traumatizing for you anti racists (who are as i hope ive explained, actually severely and seriously racist) - muslims arent gonna become like us.

look at the polls. how many of them think death is a suitable punishment for leaving the faith?

how many of them think murder is a suitable punishment for depicting the paedo - sorry, prophet?

go look at the numbers. its quite high.

sorry for pointing this out - i know its highly troubling because it doesnt fit the narrative of the progressive moral evolution of all of humanity into clones of white rich post enlightenment liberals - but its true.

if you actually value things like free expression and liberal ethics, (try running a civilization without some form of the latter and see what happens) then you have to admit that muslims are capable of receiving the benefits of them but will never fully adopt them.

if a muslim majority took over a parliamentary democracy do you think they would leave our laws intact?

do you think they would allow freedom of expression when it comes to islam?

do you think they would treat women and minorities the same way we do?

they wouldn't and they've demonstrated that fact time and time again.

because - guess what - THEY HAVE DIFFERENCES TO US!

i know we CAN NEVER say such things because our racist conception of anti racism cannot cope with it but its true.

there's no magic secular teleology that's gonna make things otherwise. sorry. deal with it and stop defending and surrendering to barbarism.

[Genteel Death]

more dead battery controversial blah blah blah.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

look at the polls. how many of them think death is a suitable punishment for leaving the faith?

how many of them think murder is a suitable punishment for depicting the paedo - sorry, prophet?

go look at the numbers. its quite high.

Man, I don't wanna do research. Link for a poll? Frankly, I think ten is a disturbingly high number, but even for academic purposes I'd like to know the real number.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

Man, I don't wanna do research. Link for a poll? Frankly, I think ten is a disturbingly high number, but even for academic purposes I'd like to know the real number.

this is not exaclty the answer to those claims but look at fareed zakaria's op ed on the washington post right now. he argues that the koran does not even mention "blasphemy" (the bible does) but then he goes on to list all muslim-majority countries that have blasphemy laws, plus various figures of arrests, people on death row, etc.

eta: http://wapo.st/1zXY2PA

+

one of zakaria's sources: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...and-blasphemy/

[dead_battery]

10%? try 64% http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...leaving-islam/

loads more stats here

[dead_battery]

my problem is with accommodating this backwardsness in the name of tolerance

do we want them to stay the same? is it a good thing that uk banks offer islamic finance options? no its fucking not. its not good that we try and accommodate them with halal food. we should be CORRUPTING their superstitions and beliefs. we should be forcing them to adapt to democratic norms, not giving up our values in the name of protecting their fantasies.

but in the name of anti racism and guilt over all the murderous atrocity and mayhem we've caused in their countries, too many people seem to want to excuse this barbarism. as if the satirists had it coming because they were racist.

isnt it racist to try and excuse muslims for these crimes as if they can't possibly help it and their ways need to be protected? really? do we think its a GOOD thing that they are too sensitive to have their religion mocked? something we want to encourage in the name of respect? that kind of attitude is absurd.

there are no muslim voices calling for a relaxing of iconoclasm, every single one ive seen on the news so far has been obfuscating and talking about debate being the answer. they arent saying 'we need to get over our non existent god'. they might condemn the violence but no muslim is ok with the cartoons existing.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

10%? try 64% http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...leaving-islam/

that leads back to the pew research center and the figure for egypt is 88% favoring the death penalty for apostasy. what in the living fuck.

eta- anyway here is the link to the pew study:

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/0...ull-report.pdf

Originally Posted by dead_battery

loads more stats here

i saw that site while searching news today but it didn't seem like a trustworthy/impartial website.

Originally Posted by dead_battery

my problem is with accommodating this backwardsness in the name of tolerance

i agree with that. now of course these are the chickens of colonialism coming home to roost-- but still, the implications for the future of liberal democracies and secular societies are pretty awful. yes, of course these systems are far from perfect but there are much worse ones.

so-- who the fuck here wants to live in a theocracy? if you do, please move to iran, sudan or saudi arabia and start living the dream *today*.

[!@#$%!]

ps- those stats in the actual report are a bit more complex that the idiot newspaper summaries. but the number of egyptians who favor death for those who abandon islam is still pretty fucking high. a fuckload of pakistanis also favor stoning for adultery. nice!

[evollove]

Thanks for the legwork! The Pew was particularly interesting. I searched the word "death" and got a nuanced but mostly unsettling picture right away. At the moment it seems to me that religion has been converted (ha) by cunts into ideology, and doesn't necessarily condemn (ha) religion itself. "Necessarily," although it's obvious religion is a particularly useful tool for achieving ideological ends.

Originally Posted by evollove

Frankly, I think ten is a disturbingly high number,

Originally Posted by dead_battery

10%? try 64%

Actually, I meant ten people, and I'm sort of serious. There were cultures 2500 years ago more enlightened (and the Enlightenment hadn't even happened).

Originally Posted by dead_battery

too many people seem to want to excuse this barbarism. as if the satirists had it coming because they were racist.

Is that really going around? "It's sad, sure, but..."

The ghost of Christopher Hitchens haunts me, and I'm actually a bit militant on the issue of ending this shit. More important than bullets, it would be nice to see some attempt to win over the next generation, which is the only way to win.

I only object to the one-dimensional portrait of a billion people. Also, religious expression is a recognized human right and talk of wiping it from the earth makes me queasy.

[Rob Instigator]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/4...zVSNDw.twitter

Replies from Muslim organizations around the world condemming the asshole idiots attacks in France

[Rob Instigator]

What people in general do not want to think about is that what is actually going on is a war of ideology. One side wants to try and bring the rest of the world into enlightenment, humanist, secular ideals, and the other wants to return the world to patriarchal, dogmatic, totalitarian control.

There are people who bring this up in the USA news or UK debates but they are shot down faster than shit.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/4...zVSNDw.twitter

Replies from Muslim organizations around the world condemming the asshole idiots attacks in France

of course the moderates will be outraged. the problem for me is not the moderates in any religion though, the problem is how extremists are allowed to fester in the name of religious freedom-- all religions have their fanatics.

but the bigger problem i have is that for every believer that says their religion is one of peace there is a history of religious warfare and carnage attached to each religion, plus the scripture to back up/justify it. smote this & that, bringing a sword, etc etc. judaism, christianity and islam have an extensive history of violence that cannot be denied. same thing with hinduism. zen buddhists supported japanese militarism in ww2.

i'm sorry but all religions are bullshit. their so-called message of peace is a velvet glove around an iron fist of power & control.

war is part of humanity of course so let's not just blame religion for it, but faith makes for the worst kind of excuses.

france had its own issues with religious wars & massacres which is why religion was removed from politics and public life by law a long time ago. which shocks some americans but it has worked for them. pray to whatever you want but please do it in private.

anyway i wish i could stay to read/reply more & try to think this out, but i have to get on the road & leave this sputum sample to be skewered on its own. thanks for the ears, replies, etc.

[The Soup Nazi]

 

[Rob Instigator]

"History is a bloody testament that sincerity can achieve atrocities which cynicism could hardly conceive of." - Jack Parsons

[Rob Instigator]

"The sexual perversion of Christianity becomes obvious when it is realized that "The Holy Ghost" (The Sophia) is feminine. The very Tetragrammaton, Yod He Vau He, means: Father-Mother-Son-Daughter and asserts the splendor of the biological order. How could life proceed from a strictly masculine creation? What miracle could possibly be superior to the miracle of copulation, conception, and gestation? In the corrupt and demonic Jehovah, the priesthood blasphemed nature in order to perpetuate a tyrannical and superstitious patriarchy. Woman was insulted and affronted with the calumny of immaculate conception - then, by this mystery mongering, a premium was placed on moral and spiritual sterility. This sublimation of the sex-urge has been the basis of the power of the church and is the source of much of the psychosis rampant in the modern world." - Jack Parsons

[Rob Instigator]

"We must not only have freedom of religion, we must have freedom from religion." - Jack Parsons