[atari 2600]

I realize you specified in your concocted explanation (provided within your second solicitation) that it's another drive for another computer that you are "upgrading."

I also realize you've been doing "B&P offers" to a PayPal account for years and are now selling hard drives, and that a profit margin of even one penny qualifies as selling shows.

I do not believe your explanations via your clever ruses of language. And I do not buy that they are all uncirculated shows on the hard drive(s) one bit. Your claim that they are is a sure red flag and wholly preposterous.

[rappard]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

I realize you specified in your concocted explanation (provided within your second solicitation) that it's another drive for another computer that you are "upgrading."

I also realize you've been doing "B&P offers" to a PayPal account for years and are now selling hard drives, and that a profit margin of even one penny qualifies as selling shows.

I do not believe your explanations via your clever ruses of language. And I do not buy that they are all uncirculated shows on the hard drive(s) one bit. Your claim that they are is a sure red flag and wholly preposterous.

Whatever - again, I know I never made a profit of recording / collecting / sharing / giving away live shows, but apparently you have solid proof. Are we done here?

[atari 2600]

Nope, I'm just getting started. And your nerves are showing.
You're hoping that "solid proof" is needed. Anyone can plainly see what you've been doing. You'e mocking me because you feel I have no "solid proof."

How many B&Ps via posts to this board would you estimate you've done over the years? I'm thinking around fifty. And you've done all of these by collecting money for shipping through a PayPal account. Is that or is that not correct? Answer the question!

Typically, when one is trading in the accepted, ethical way there is no need to cover postal expenses since both parties are sending materials to each other. What is generally done in a B&P trade is that the receiving party sends their blank(s) along with self-addressed postage. Thus, there is no need for a PayPal account to be involved; that's a transaction and not a trade. Providing a freight quote that leads to a monetary transaction is not the same as having the postage being included with the blank, and certain people are interested in knowing who you are.

[nicfit]

Well, in my personal experience, rappard sent me dvds filled with sy live shows, and I gladly paid him a more than reasonable price for dvds+postage, coz I had nothing to offer him for a trade with him, he has so many shows more than me, and overall it's pretty hard to have something he does not have, methinks.

Maybe , atari, "trade" is not the proper word for those "transactions" as you call them, but that's not selling.

Again, from a personal point of view (I'm not a "pro"-trader at all), that's a really handy and ethic way to help people get shows they don't have. Paying blank and postage when you don't send nothing is more than acceptable.


edit: I think that a "too strict" policy about trading, say, a show for a show, would simply make traders an elite of people who started collecting shows years ago.

What about a 16 yo dude? He hardly could ever have anything the "seasoned" guys don't have, unless they turn into tapers too...

I think I understand your point, to an extent, but I think all we need to clear here is that what rappard offers aren't "regular" b&P , methinks.
Repeating myself, asking for the money needed to send something to a guy who won't send you back anything in return is both ethic and understandable, unless you're Santa Claus.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by nicfit

Well, in my personal experience, rappard sent me dvds filled with sy live shows, and I gladly paid him a more than reasonable price for dvds+postage, coz I had nothing to offer him for a trade with him, he has so many shows more than me, and overall it's pretty hard to have something he does not have, methinks.

Maybe , atari, "trade" is not the proper word for those "transactions" as you call them, but that's not selling.

Again, from a personal point of view (I'm not a "pro"-trader at all), that's a really handy and ethic way to help people get shows they don't have. Paying blank and postage when you don't send nothing is more than acceptable.

Oh, but it is selling. So is including bootlegs as an incentive offer when selling hard drives. And since Martin is not going to 'fess up to all his "B&P offers" that I don't have links for because they were at the old board and he's only done a few to this new board, I think your testimonial will be more than enough proof.

Shall I drop a dime now, rappard, or are you going to start to tell the truth?

[nicfit]

I added some more thoughts to my previous post.

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Oh, but it is selling. So is including bootlegs as an incentive offer when selling hard drives. And since Martin is not going to 'fess up to all his "B&P offers" that I don't have links for because they were at the old board and he's only done a few to this new board, I think your testimonial will be more than enough proof.
Shall I drop a dime now, rappard, or are you going to start to tell the truth?

regarding "my" B&P
that's not SELLING man, you know, I would have paid MUCH more buying blank dvds in a media store, go to the post office, send them to martin along with the money needed to send them back to me filled.
See what I said there?
That would have been oh so ethic, having people pay more, huh?
You think traders should send things free all around the world?
and btw paying is not the same as buying.
time to go bowling.

and about the "start to tell the truth" bit, your constant posts-deleting habit is not helping your cause, just so you know.

[French Tosser]

rARPPAPARD iSA THIEF;

[rappard]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Nope, I'm just getting started. And your nerves are showing.
You're hoping that "solid proof" is needed. Anyone can plainly see what you've been doing.

How many B&Ps via posts to this board would you estimate you've done over the years? I'm thinking around fifty. And you've done all of these by collecting money for shipping through a PayPal account. Is that or is that not correct? Answer the question!

Typically, when one is trading in the accepted, ethical way there is no need to cover postal expenses since both parties are sending materials to each other. What is generally done in a B&P trade is that the receiving party sends their blank(s) along with self-addressed postage. Thus, there is no need for a PayPal account to be involved; that's a transaction and not a trade. Providing a freight quote that leads to a monetary transaction is not the same as having the postage being included with the blank, and certain people are interested in knowing who you are.

My "nerves are showing"? That's interesting, given that I have nothing to be nervous about. All I'm saying is that claims such as yours require more evidence than your vague hints, especially since I've never dealt with you before.

I've done hundreds of B&Ps and CD-R giveaways over the years on this board (on both its old and new versions) - some of the time people paid postage through PayPal, some of the time they sent stamps, some of the time they simply got the CD-Rs for free. NEVER have I charged for discs, and NEVER have I charged more than actual postage (actually, I often rounded down).

"Self-addressed postage" - <sarcasm>oh yes, Dutch stamps and/or IRCs can be bought everywhere.</sarcasm>

Re nicfit's "I gladly paid him a more than reasonable price for dvds+postage": again, I only charged for postage - discs are so cheap nowadays.

[rappard]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Shall I drop a dime now, rappard, or are you going to start to tell the truth?

Interesting choice of words from someone who often 1) deletes his posts or 2) edits them considerably. Sweet irony....

[nicfit]

Originally Posted by rappard

Re nicfit's "I gladly paid him a more than reasonable price for dvds+postage": again, I only charged for postage - discs are so cheap nowadays.

Yesss, I said "more than reasonable" to underline that (cheap or not) I would have had to buy them in order to send you blanks , and that would have been an added cost you spared me he he.
noe it's really time for bowling, I'm out--

[atari 2600]

It doesn't matter, nicfit, the bottom line is that you paid him money.

Funny, this guy does B&Ps where there's no blank sent to him and no pre-paid postage sent to him? How is it a B&P exactly, rappard?

Keep your soliticitations off this board from now on if you don't want to get stung in the future.

[rappard]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

It doesn't matter, nicfit, the bottom line is that you paid him money.

Funny, this guy does B&Ps where there's no blank sent to him and no pre-paid postage sent to him? How is it a B&P exactly, rappard?

Keep your soliticiations off this board from now on if you don't want to get stung in the future.

Lookie here, an upright citizen! Victim of a religious upbringing, perhaps? Funny little man....

It's a B&P* in spirit, not in nature.
(*: actually it's just a "P", see my posts above.)

And since when did you become the board's self-appointed policeman?

[Tokolosh]

This discussion has been blown out of proportion.
I've exchanged with Rappard on a number of occasions and money was never an issue. Selling a hard drive is another story though.

I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you atari. Rappard's a genuine taper/sharer, and I'm not the only one who can confirm that.

[Moshe]

I've exchanged with Rappard on a number of occasions too and money was never a problem. Some of the times he even took the costs on himself too.

[_tunic_]

my 2 cents:
- rappard keeps on sending me stuff, most of thie times he doesn't expect anything in return. Sometimes I need to send it forward (after copying the discs for myself). If so then stamps are included.
- 90% of the SY shows I've shared on Dime were his files
- to me B&P is completely outdated. I would rather pay someone for postage and perhaps a DVD/CDR, then to having to take the effort to send that person a disc. But I'm extremely lazy, plus the postoffice is always closed when I have time to go to it. It's much easier for me to transfer a small amount of money through Paypal.

if you have something against each other, please discuss it privately.

thank you

[skinnypaul]

I was going to keep well out of this - Martin's big enough to look after himself - but FWIW I've known Martin for a number of years and know him to be a very friendly, very straight-up fella who's put a great deal of time, money and effort into taping and sharing SY related material.

[The Usher]

Well, I recived on of the hard drives from Rappard, and I don't see what the big deal is. The price was very good, cheaper than a second hand hard drive, and the postage was very small.
Getting the hard drive has given me access to loads of stuff that I just couldn't get hold of.
Atari 2600: What exactly has this got to do with you anyway? If Rappard decides to upgrade his hard drives and include some SY shows on them for people who appreciate them, then so be it. You seem like a very angry person.

[andrei]

[quote=The Usher]Well, I recived on of the hard drives from Rappard, and I don't see what the big deal is. The price was very good, cheaper than a second hand hard drive, and the postage was very small.[quote]
I don't have nothing against Rappard (i got many Shellac/SY shows from him thru Dime), but selling a SY loaded HDD on a SY board, doesn't seem ... (i can't find the right words in English)...a fair play thing.

[skipvacuum]

martin rappard is a god..and i appreciate his exsistance very much

[sonicl]

I'm another one who was going to keep well out of this, but seeing as I'm the new owner of one of the hard drives I feel compelled to say something.

The way I see it is that Martin has a hard drive that is no longer of any use to him... Why not sell it?... Hey, it has a load of SY recordings on it... Why not see if someone who loves SY would like it, with the recordings still on?... Waste not, want not...

It's not as if Martin is filling up hard drives with the intention of selling them at a profit. If that was his intention, well, he'd be selling them on eBay with the Russian CD-Rs full of MP3s, not to a bunch of like-minded souls on a fansite for less than the cost of used hard drive.