[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

Atheism takes faith too. If you think it is silly to believe in something without much proof for it, you might as well be an agnostic.

If you don't have faith in anything, you'd have a pretty awful life.

NOT beieving in anything is exactly the opposite of FAITH!

what about that do christians not understand? so deluded.

I have faith in nothing and my life is wonderful.

I believ in nothing and my life is wonderful.

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

NOT beieving in anything is exactly the opposite of FAITH!

what about that do christians not understand? so deluded.

I have faith in nothing and my life is wonderful.

I believ in nothing and my life is wonderful.

I agree. I believe you can enjoy life without religion. I'm am religious, but not because it gives me some warm inner feeling that people usually turn to it for. I just truly believe what I believe.

[mangajunky]

Religion creates excuses to do horrible things and it takes responsibility away from people.

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by mangajunky

Religion creates excuses to do horrible things and it takes responsibility away from people.

That I DISagree with. Just because people USE it for that, doesn't mean that is what it's supposed to be for. It's like saying school buses are bad because they create reasons for people to be late for work. People always find something to use to advanced their own agendas, and religion has been a very popular choice.

[mangajunky]

People like to pass responsibility off on someone or something else. They are not even conscious that they are doing it. Isn't it better to live with the truth that we have to take responsibility for the here and now instead of planning for life in the hereafter? Shouldn't we be doing good because it's the right thing to do and not because that's what God wills?

[Rob Instigator]

pray tell, what is religion FOR then?

in all my studies and readings and life I have found ujust two reasons for religion or religious belief.

one - to answer questions regarding where we came from why we are here

two - to guide our life choices so as to allow us to achieve "heaven/afterlife" by "living correctly"

both of these are loads of shit. the only answetr to the first question that religion can give is purely allegorical.
Any answers that religion gives to the second question are purely to control the population.

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by mangajunky

People like to pass responsibility off on someone or something else. They are not even conscious that they are doing it. Isn't it better to live with the truth that we have to take responsibility for the here and now instead of planning for life in the hereafter? Shouldn't we be doing good because it's the right thing to do and not because that's what God wills?

Religion talks about the life hereafter, the bible actually doesn't. Ecclesiates 9:5 says that the dead are consious of nothing. It's false religion that uses it to scare people into coming to church, because when they come to church, they put money in the plate, and if enough people do it, the pastor can buy that new Mercedes he's had his eye on.

[Rob Instigator]

hebrews do not believe in an "afterlife"

that is something mad eup by christian religious leaders extrapolating from the bible things that are not there.

if you go strictly by the bible then almost no one is in heaven right now.
Elijah and a couple of other prophets walked right into heaven (mary, jesus, etc) but every single person that ahs ever lived and died (your grandma, your sister, whoever) sits in "limbo" until the time when Jeebus Christ comes again to claim the souls of the dead. everythimng any preacher or priest or religious leader has ever told any christians about heaven adnd going to heaven is s fucking blatant and outright lie.

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

hebrews do not believe in an "afterlife"

that is something mad eup by christian religious leaders extrapolating from the bible things that are not there.

if you go strictly by the bible then almost no one is in heaven right now.
Elijah and a couple of other prophets walked right into heaven (mary, jesus, etc) but every single person that ahs ever lived and died (your grandma, your sister, whoever) sits in "limbo" until the time when Jeebus Christ comes again to claim the souls of the dead. everythimng any preacher or priest or religious leader has ever told any christians about heaven adnd going to heaven is s fucking blatant and outright lie.

Agreed. Religion has taught things that are not in the bible for their own personal (and financial) gain. But in my opinion, just because the bible has been misrepresented isn't a reason to cancel it out. Really study the bible, see what it really says, and then decide. If you do that, you might even realize that what Rob says the bible says isn't REALLY what it says. No offense, Rob

[Rob Instigator]

no offense taken. the bible is a colection of history, allegory, myth, letters, songs, prayers, etc.

there are a millio things to be gained from study of such a cultural powerhouse.

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

no offense taken. the bible is a colection of history, allegory, myth, letters, songs, prayers, etc.

there are a millio things to be gained from study of such a cultural powerhouse.

That's awesome. So many people are so close-minded that once they get sick of religion, they don't want to hear anything about the bible. There are a lot of things to learn from it, whether you chose to be religious or not. I can't stand religion. Sounds funny, I know, but if I wasn't one of Jehovah's Witnesses I would have nothing to do with any of it because of the hypocrisy that it is seeped it. What I believe just makes so much sense to me, I would be going against the natural logic I have to leave and pretend like I don't believe it.

[Rob Instigator]

if you read the words of Jesus (or the words attributed to jesus) anyone an see that it is genius humanitarian stuff. the same stuff taught by Ghandi and Martin Luther King jr.

religion and especially christianity has been subverted from jesus' teachings to being solely about his divinity, and his redemption of man's sins. very rarely do christians talk about the beatitudes, instead focusing on anciant hebrew law of the ten commandments.

jesus states many times that just as he is a son of god (not THE son, but A son) so are all of us humans, from the highest richest sheik to the lowest poorest humblest beggar/whore.

the Beatitudes are the beggining portion of the Sermon on the Mount from the Gospel of Matthew

Biblical scholar and author Andrej Kodjak has stated that this opening of the sermon was designed to shock the audience as a deliberate inversion of standard values, but this shock value has been lost today due to the commonness of the text.[1]
The blessed nature that these characteristics endow is not meant to be considered from a worldly perspective, but from a psychological perspective.[2] The word traditionally translated into English as "blessed" or "happy" is in the Greek original μακαριος (makarios). A more literal translation into contemporary English may be "possessing an inward contentedness and joy that is not affected by the physical circumstances". The Beatitudes imply that people not normally considered blessed on Earth are in fact blessed by God/Reality

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)

[Rob Instigator]

do you think self-avowed "born again christian" Preznit Dubya ever even thinks about these? especially number 5 and number 7?

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

do you think self-avowed "born again christian" Preznit Dubya ever even thinks about these? especially number 5 and number 7?

No, they say they like it because it makes them feel good (and even more important, wins the votes) but they don't practice what they preach. No way.

I have to say Rob, I really like the way you think.