[ann ashtray]

No one can truely be protected against ANYTHING. I'm going to take a break for a minute (I'm at work...) but will respond more to this later.

[FreshChops]

Originally Posted by knox

it's been said a million times before, MOST victims are murdered by someone they know/love/trust. Since they are not expecting it, having a gun doesn't help much.

The fact that you regurgitate such aimless and hollow stats as these further makes it harder to take any of your arguments serious.

.... this stat is no different than "most automobile accidents happen within 1 mile of your home". It's not that the 1 mile radius is always going to be more dangerous by default... but it's simply because it you break down all of your commutes, you are within 1 mile from your home more often than any further distance. The fact that it's stated that most gun accidents happen between family, friends and somebody you know is frankly the stupidest stat I've ever heard applied to anything... if you REALLY think about it. This is straight obvious given that the presence of anyone else around you when related to firearm use is like 99.99999% someone you know and trust because people don't go waving guns around to strangers. This is straight hollow stats, otherwise stating the obvious.

If the stat proved that people harmed with firearms were more often uninvolved strangers than anybody, this would support your complaint... otherwise, it's just another random plucked stat you use to cling your opinions to..... double standards?

I'm sorry, and I've got love for you, but if you get all wrapped up and emotional behind aimless stats like this, it's almost not even worth arguing with you. From the beginning your argument feels like you've started with a generic disinterest and dislike for guns and has sent you aimlessly digging into stats to support and back your opinion. Based on your broad stereotyping, it's apparent you either have little to no experience with guns or just represent a passive and defeatist personality in general and can't appreciate the next persons interest in owning a firearm for protection. If you assume that everyone owns a gun to feed a fantasy to want to kill someone, something is wrong with you, not gun owners.

You seem just as bent on having posters admit that your stats have relevance and should influence their opinion and lifestyles as you are to create a big picture, unbiased accumulation of outlooks.

There are just as many flattering stats that could be said in favor of gun owners; ratios or responsible owners vs. w/ incident.... possibly a more favorible ratio than any other thing (prescription drugs>OD's; autos>auto accident deaths; etc.) This country (as with most) lives and dies by the accountability of human morality of it's inhabitants.

I don't trust people for a lot of things (just as you don't with guns), but I assure you one of the last things I worry about is if my life is threatened by the incidental misuse of a firearm by another. It's just not reality. There may be numbers and stats, but in ratio to how often it's not a factor and is so far beyond minute.... if I was going to live in fear of this, I'd assume live in fear of anything and everything. i.g. paranoid. ....pick something!

You want to back up your disgust with carefully selected facts then you start rambling on about all gun owners wanting to own guns for the lust of power and because they secretly seek the thrill of killing somebody... this kills all attempts at building a point with stats with pure ignorant prejudice. Your opinions and scenarios haven't shed one ounce of optimism or accountability towards the average, and legal gun owner, which by the way make up the majority of gun owners in the country. These owners account for numbers and stats which far outweigh any pessimistic outlook you've shared.

You insist that I rely on police and my state, though I've told you my police drove by gaining peace of mind acknowledging I was armed during a time of compromised civilization.... and why, because they knew themselves that they could not be accounted for. I shared two scenarios here locally and recently where gun owners (and likely their families) lives were saved by being armed against criminals.... you weren't hearing it, it wasn't a part of your agenda. That's my stats.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by knox

Guys, one more time: guns are not cars. Stop that, it's getting silly.

more people die from car accidents than guns, LOTS MORE

[Rob Instigator]

and every single cop I have ever talked to (my house was burglarized 3 times over a summer, even with a Brinks alarm system, years ago) has told me to arm myself.

The cops know they are not there to protect you. They cannot be everywhere at once.

[hevusa]

the fact remains... only paranoid retards own guns.

the redcoats are coming... no, the black man is coming... no, no, the mexicans are coming... no, the military is coming... no, the terrorists are coming.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

more people die from car accidents than guns, LOTS MORE

a lot more die from heart attack.
cancer.

what's the point?

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by knox

or perhaps they are just secretly waiting for something to happen so they have the chance to kill someone without the legal consequences?

personally, if you're worried about safety and somebody breaks into your house you'll try to a) leave b) hide c) call the police

the idea of walking around the house or standing there with a gun is way riskier but i guess thats what you to do if you're thinking this is my chance to shoot someone.

That kind of fucked up opportunism I would expect from a new recruit in the army, not a gun owner. Gun owners make more sense to me as people living in a heightened delusion of fear and paranoia.

Perhaps they go hand in hand, or maybe every gun owner has their own personal kind of psychosis.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Most people don't want to kill others.
Most don't want to steal.
Most don't want to rape.

Most people don't want to own guns.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by FreshChops

All others like owning a firearm for a sense of "self defense"

So an antisocial personality disorder?

Makes sense with the internet and all.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Most people don't own guns.

I know more people that own guns than dont...hmmm i think maybe my sister doesnt have one and my boss thats about it.

[pbradley]

You're a case study in the limits of anecdotal evidence.

[knox]

Originally Posted by FreshChops

I don't trust people for a lot of things (just as you don't with guns), but I assure you one of the last things I worry about is if my life is threatened by the incidental misuse of a firearm by another. It's just not reality.

Well, clearly you don't live in a very violent area. You don't know what's like (ask suchfriends) to have people shoot each other on a daily fucking basis for no reason whatsoever.

You don't know what it feels like to live in a neighborhood in which people die because of lost bullets flying around. So don't talk to me about it.

While you americans are proud of your RIGHT to bear guns, the gun industry is injecting money into their lobby, even creating these "stats" you mention. They are sponsoring a bunch of shit and are clearly just profit-oriented.

When an industry is powerful enough to make people believe they own people are dying for no reason, but it's ok because people crash their cars that's when it gets really worrying.

I can't believe that owning a gun is less strict than driving a car. That surely says something. I cannot believe that owning a gun is a RIGHT, when driving a car isn't. If you can't see the contradiction there, well, what can I say?

There are millions of people dying in other countries (mostly the poor), due to the lack of regulation of the US gun industry. Most of these guns are manufactured there, and while you don't start limiting this very powerful industry these people are gonna carry on dying, defenseless in places where nobody gives a shit about them.

And that's the harsh reality that most of you don't know (well not more than the eventual mention on the news). That's what's been going on for years, and I know that, I've seen that ane been there.

There is no other way you could possibly save these lives other than controlling the gun industry/ownership. And all of this just means $$$ to them.

It's easy to sit there and say "I know someone who protected himself" when people aren't being shot around you on a daily basis and you're afraid you could be next.

So that's the main difference in ideals: you can protect yourself (me,me,me and my rights) or society as a WHOLE. If you are thinking of the greater good, then definitely, logically less guns = less danger. (UK stats anyone?)

So yeah, you bet I have something against guns.

Oh and guys don't talk to ME about having shitty police. lol.

[SONIC GAIL]

This thread is starting to make Americans look like a big room full of mental health patients ready to start the apocolypse with thier rifles cause thier all delusional.

All of these theories facts whatever i have read over the past several pages they don't pan out in what I can physically touch and see. If people get guns just because they secretly want to kill people, I'd say I'm living in the wild west. Take a poll in my nieghborhood I will garantee you 8 out of 10 people you ask own at least one gun. There is 1 cop in the town and we are 20 miles from civilization. I will not hide if a stranger enters my home. Yes it does happen even in the country especially in the country. We are more vulnerable. There is less assistance from the outside of our homes.

And the cotton mouths!!! Ill be damned before i let one of those fuckers bite my kid. and i aint doin the job with a shovel.

So my point gun laws are good. if you dont want guns good. I dont like guns i am extremely cautious when even holding mine. crazy people should not have guns. drinking and guns are a very bad mixture. yes i do understand that "bad" people get the guns somehow through the legal market, but if made illegal you will then have regular people also purchasing illegal guns. LOOK at pot for example....by making it illegal all they have done is made the people looking for it who are usually not bad people go to get it through illegal methods.

How many of you illegally buy pot? come on hands up.

There is a center line to walk on. You don't have to either be on the right or left ya know.

[Rob Instigator]

sayin.


I do not own a gun but I reserve the right to purchase one when I feel th need.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

you people are still arguing about this?

 

gun nuts, fuck it y'all can have your shotguns but what the fuck is the honest purpose of a hand gun or an assault weapon other than to hurt people?

peace lovers, fuck it, lets count our victories here, gun control is on the rise, responsible ownership is on the rise, shootings are down every year, lets truly count our blessings. While the flag has still got to be hoisted, we are well on our way to getting these things accomplished.

I will point out an interesting irony, in rural Africa you simply HAVE to have a rifle, there are seriously dangerous animals, and ironically people rarely kill each other, and yet here in the states, we blow each other away at the slightest pretext of opportunity...

"O Virgin Mother of God, pray before our Lord Jesus Christ for the peace of our cities"

[!@#$%!]

suchfriends, in rwanda they used machetes

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Most people don't want to own guns.

agreed.

That just helps prove my point, thanks.

[SONIC GAIL]

That is my driving point in this part of the states such friends. There are literally bears, bobcats, venomous snakes, gators, crocodiles, wild hogs (which are VERY dangerous), wild dogs and probably some shit Im glad i don't know about in my area in many areas in my state. This aint disney its a swamp. You are all alone. No city lights just total and complete darkness surrounds you the moon and stars are yr only light. It still creeps me out going to my laundry room outside in my dads garage just woods I cant see in them but everything can see me or a chance encounter with a night predator in the wrong place at the wrong time. im not a paranoid gun totin hick. I am a responsible person who needs a tool of protection in my wild surroundings.

In fact i will tell you that even in the BURBS around here wich were built over wilderness and swamp land have wild beasts roaming the streets. My dad oversees a homeowners association of one like this and they currently have a bobcat hangin out in the streets and peoples yards. The wildlife peolpe can only move it by law if it harms someone. So what will they do when it pounces thier 2 year old toddler who's in the front yard playing? Not to mention the amount of gators that end up in places they should not be. Pools, your yard, under your house in the ditch off the side of te road.


But i do think peace is a good answer, just not the one we will recieve just yet that will only come in the very end and you know what I mean.

[knox]

Right, since my points are being ignored i'll give up.

You see one thing from where you're standing, I've been seeing something completely different down here.

So, whatever.

The evil of the gun industry is probably one of the worst in the world today, up there with the pharmaceuticals and illegal drugs (which quite often converge).

[SONIC GAIL]

I do not disagree with that statement one bit