[Severian]

How can you guys bear to come back to this thread from a time BEFORE, which now feels like a distant fucking fantasy that may or may not be based on reality.

I tried. I love my life in a state of perpetual vigilance, and I speak out to the extent that my job allows and make donations to various causes. But the more time passes the more my capacity for discussing this living horrorshow diminishes. Someone shot up a goddamn newsroom in an itty bitty town Maryland town last week, and goddammit, our commander-in-chief stoked the flames of violence against the Fourth Estate shamelessly. Took no responsibility when his message was pushed to its logical extreme.

I can’t stand to revisit this thread, and I have a hard time seeing how it stays so popular. Maybe I’m just winded, feeling beaten and busted up. I don’t know.

But as an American, I’m finding it harder and harder to talk about the monster who occupies the White House.

[Skuj]

It's good to talk about it. "Popular" might be the wrong word. I don't even fucking live in America, but this horror show affects the world.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Skuj

It's good to talk about it. "Popular" might be the wrong word. I don't even fucking live in America, but this horror show affects the world.

Ah. See, I was wondering about that. Not living in America would make it a bit easier to digest, I imagine. For Americans, particularly minorities, we’ve entered into a new age where formerly taboo things like racism, sexism and senseless violence are once again in fashion. You’ve got to watch your neighbors to an extent, because a cult of personality has emboldened them to wear their previously suppressed (or at least saved for family dinner) attitudes on their sleeves.

There are places where it isn’t like this, of course — the east and west coasts are generally less likely to embrace mob 1950s mentalities than the Midwest or the Bible Belt — but it’s like a cancer that was in remission has kicked into full malignancy, and is spreading.

Maybe it’s just goddamn time for this country to squirm again. It’s obviously much worse in Israel, and in Turkey, but it feels like whenever things get too obscene to be real, and you find yourself thinking, “I knew it was going to be bad, but THIS BAD?” you find your definition of “bad” is still pretty goddamn malleable, and it could get so much worse.

[Severian]

This happened the other day:

 

Millions of people watch and listen to this asshole, and think what he says is “news.” So not only is it scary that this freak exists and does stuff like this on nationally syndicated TV and radio, but it’s downright fucking terrifying that people listen, and some do so without irony.

[Skuj]

I have to say it is actually worse than I (and most of us, I suspect) imagined. Many of us thought that Trump would surround himself with some very smart/worldly people, and grow into the job somewhat. "Trump's Picks" could be a horror show. And he seems to have regressed further than even the campaign era.

I don't read tesla anymore, but I imagine he will defend that Alex Jones thing. In many ways having tesla as a regular "contributor" to this thread shows the reality of our times. Millions of Americans think Mueller is a bad guy. What the fuck is going to happen when that investigation wraps up? I'm dreading it. And the Demonizer In Chief will have much to be responsible for.

[ilduclo]

I'm very into local and state politics. I stay aware of the national stuff even though there isn't much I can do to change it. I really wish we were in the ascendancy now, but I don't mind being a minority party when I know who's right and who's wrong. If you look at the great arc of history, their side is on the losing end more often than not, or otherwise we'd still be kneeling in the mud as the masters passed by (that's a quote from my direct ancestor). Give a read to Germinal if you want a good idea as to how things were for the majority of the "civilized world" around 100 years ago...

[Severian]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

I'm very into local and state politics. I stay aware of the national stuff even though there isn't much I can do to change it. I really wish we were in the ascendancy now, but I don't mind being a minority party when I know who's right and who's wrong. If you look at the great arc of history, their side is on the losing end more often than not, or otherwise we'd still be kneeling in the mud as the masters passed by (that's a quote from my direct ancestor). Give a read to Germinal if you want a good idea as to how things were for the majority of the "civilized world" around 100 years ago...

We’ve had like twice as many republican presidents as democratic presidents, but maybe you’re taking more big picture stuff?

Anyway, I very much mind. And I’m not sure this is really contiguous with “history” unless you’re speaking at a level so macro that it will only bounce back in ways we won’t be able to measure or witness because we’ll be long dead?

[Skuj]

One thing I hope most people realize now: FUCKING VOTE.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Skuj

One thing I hope most people realize now: FUCKING VOTE.

LOLZ

[tw2113]

Voting is how we got the asshats we have now.

[Skuj]

Dems fuckin stayed home in droves. I know I know....Clinton didn't excite them enough......she was going to win anyway......etc etc.

And here we are.

[evollove]

Lol

Having this debate now.

"We need to register people to vote."

Me: "No. We need to register people who will vote Dem, and we need to make sure Dems go to the polls."

There's a difference.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

Lol

Having this debate now.

"We need to register people to vote."

Me: "No. We need to register people who will vote Dem, and we need to make sure Dems go to the polls."

There's a difference.

yesbut (lolsorry)

dems being a big tent will never toe one party line

so many factions—and the left tends to be less disciplined than the right. factions & factions.

e.g. berniebros rejecting hilaria (idjits)

also, swing voters swing: many who voted for obama switched to trump

it’s a tricky business but where im driving at is dems need a compelling message too from the top not just grassroots work.

“i’m not him” was not sufficient and might not be sufficient again (and enough with the popular vote disclaimers, that means zero).

what is required is also an appeal to enlightened self-interest... maybe. something. i really don’t know.

but also: better tactics.

things are still up in the air but keep up the good work.

[ilduclo]

Originally Posted by tw2113

Voting is how we got the asshats we have now.

Nope

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yesbut (lolsorry)

dems being a big tent will never toe one party line

so many factions—and the left tends to be less disciplined than the right. factions & factions.

e.g. berniebros rejecting hilaria (idjits)

also, swing voters swing: many who voted for obama switched to trump

it’s a tricky business but where im driving at is dems need a compelling message too from the top not just grassroots work.

“i’m not him” was not sufficient and might not be sufficient again (and enough with the popular vote disclaimers, that means zero).

what is required is also an appeal to enlightened self-interest... maybe. something. i really don’t know.

but also: better tactics.

things are still up in the air but keep up the good work.

Ok, love you Slambang, but this is the very discussion we were having two years ago. Just sayin’. Personally, I can’t take this whole thing... again... fucking blimey.

I think Skuj was specifically talking about/to SFAD, who — if y’all recall — wasn’t gonna vote, thinking somehow that not giving into the system is the answer to the problem. And it probably is in the loooooooong run, but that’s not how you address an impending flicking threat. When you’re faced with a decision between a walking horrorshow championing unapologetic aggression toward the fundamentals of democracy and a smarty pants who’s kind of a bitch... you fucking choose the qualified person who’s kind of a bitch, and you SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PRAY.

Yes, Dems are horrifically disorganized. They have weak campaigns and weak messages that almost exclusicely play into the Trump narrative, so yet again we’re faced with a “We’re not Trump, vote for me because DUH DON’T VOTE FOR THEM” kind of thing and it’s not looking promising from where I’m sitting.

Sounds crazy and premature, but the Dems need firepower. They need an Obama. They need an ambitious, partially-qualified powerhouse to speak to the people of this country who only have rage and hatred toward Trump and his party, and don’t have a clear idea of what they want that is not a reaction to Trump. They need to have their rage addressed, but they also need guidance and someone to throw up a torch for them and be pro-something instead of just anti-Trump.

From my perspective, that’s what congressional and legislative distrtics need, that’s what the nation as a whole needs. An alternate message that makes sense and points to a clear path forward. More than just “Trump = bad!”

Minority wouldn’t hurt, but in this climate would probably get assassinated before making any real headway. Probably a white man, but... I dunno, maybe a young one? Shit.

[ilduclo]

http://www.registerguard.com/opinion...nd-usurpations

"Only when that party of enablers of tyranny, cruelty, immorality and ignorance is defeated can a new, and loyal party be resurrected to credibly represent conservative ideas and values which many of us hold dear."

[Severian]

Side note: There’s a very good show on Showtime (Showtime? Yeah) called The Fourth Estate about the New York Times’ struggle to cover the Trump administration amid open animosity from the White House and the right as a whole, financial difficulties and just really fucking weird/crazy news non-stop.

Good, compelling show. Just learned about its existence.

[!@#$%!]

^^too long to quote your post and im typing on a phone but i wasnt having a debate with you 2 years ago, i was replying to evolloves idea that "dems need to vote" -- it's a simple sentence but the concept of "dems" is complex as fuck. A case of grammar obscuring reality. Ok!

Eta: also, suchbongs was never a "democrat" in the first place. As a theocrat, he always only impersonated a voter.

[Skuj]

Originally Posted by Severian

Ok, love you Slambang, but this is the very discussion we were having two years ago. Just sayin’. Personally, I can’t take this whole thing... again... fucking blimey.

I think Skuj was specifically talking about/to SFAD, who — if y’all recall — wasn’t gonna vote, thinking somehow that not giving into the system is the answer to the problem. And it probably is in the loooooooong run, but that’s not how you address an impending flicking threat. When you’re faced with a decision between a walking horrorshow championing unapologetic aggression toward the fundamentals of democracy and a smarty pants who’s kind of a bitch... you fucking choose the qualified person who’s kind of a bitch, and you SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PRAY.

Yes, Dems are horrifically disorganized. They have weak campaigns and weak messages that almost exclusicely play into the Trump narrative, so yet again we’re faced with a “We’re not Trump, vote for me because DUH DON’T VOTE FOR THEM” kind of thing and it’s not looking promising from where I’m sitting.

Sounds crazy and premature, but the Dems need firepower. They need an Obama. They need an ambitious, partially-qualified powerhouse to speak to the people of this country who only have rage and hatred toward Trump and his party, and don’t have a clear idea of what they want that is not a reaction to Trump. They need to have their rage addressed, but they also need guidance and someone to throw up a torch for them and be pro-something instead of just anti-Trump.

From my perspective, that’s what congressional and legislative distrtics need, that’s what the nation as a whole needs. An alternate message that makes sense and points to a clear path forward. More than just “Trump = bad!”

Minority wouldn’t hurt, but in this climate would probably get assassinated before making any real headway. Probably a white man, but... I dunno, maybe a young one? Shit.

The thing that gets me day in and day out is.....WHERE IS THE FUCKING OUTRAGE? Schumer is just too nice. Every single day Team Trump is lying and tripping over itself, and where are the Dems?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Skuj

The thing that gets me day in and day out is.....WHERE IS THE FUCKING OUTRAGE? Schumer is just too nice. Every single day Team Trump is lying and tripping over itself, and where are the Dems?

Democrats are the Arsenal (FC) of American politics

See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...3bc_story.html