the other news - Page 23

choc e-Claire · 05.22.2019, 03:52 PM

Who on earth is Andrea Leadsom? I've literally never heard of her

!@#$%! · 05.22.2019, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choc e-Claire

Who on earth is Andrea Leadsom? I've literally never heard of her

follow the thrilling and ongoing soap opera

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lved-live-news

better than the golden days of venevisión

!@#$%! · 05.23.2019, 06:41 AM

this is the live thread for today

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sign-live-news

“she’s being hounded out of office”

—

eta: television for most things

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons

demonrail666 · 05.23.2019, 07:21 AM

If you're enjoying this soap opera, just wait until the real fun starts, when the Leave and Remain sides of the party go toe-to-toe trying to find a replacement. Everyone said the EU question would eventually destroy the Tories and it looks like that's precisely what'll happen.

More surprising is the chaos it's causing in Labour but I ultimately see it finishing them, too.

I'll be glad to see the back of both of them.

!@#$%! · 05.23.2019, 07:26 AM

was gonna reply but instant reshuffle, look

demonrail666 · 05.23.2019, 07:40 AM

Haha. Hard not to find equivalence with the old 'rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic' quote. She'll be ordering a new settee for No. 10 next.

!@#$%! · 05.23.2019, 09:38 AM

i don’t understand why she doesn’t quit already. enduring pain for a cause i understand. enduring it for sheer ego is silly.

—

now they just milkshaked a little old man

damn!

i’d feel more sorry for him if it weren’t for piers morgan talking about him (glad you guys took morgan back, here he was a pestilence)

demonrail666 · 05.23.2019, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i don’t understand why she doesn’t quit already. enduring pain for a cause i understand. enduring it for sheer ego is silly.

I don't think it's as simple as ego. I think she's genuinely committed to respecting the referendum result and delivering Brexit, regardless of the cost to her own reputation. It's a question of political competence for me. Even if you ignore her mismanagement of Brexit, her period as PM has been nothing more than a string of bad decisions. And the consequence of some of those decisions are precisely why she's so weak within her own party - sections of which wanted her out the moment she blew their overall majority in the last General Election. That was in 2017 and she's been on the back-foot ever since.

!@#$%! · 05.23.2019, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I don't think it's as simple as ego. I think she's genuinely committed to respecting the referendum result and delivering Brexit, regardless of the cost to her own reputation. It's a question of political competence for me. Even if you ignore her mismanagement of Brexit, her period as PM has been nothing more than a string of bad decisions. And the consequence of some of those decisions are precisely why she's so weak within her own party - sections of which wanted her out the moment she blew their overall majority in the last General Election. That was in 2017 and she's been on the back-foot ever since.

right, which is why i mean ego, see.

i heard her speech. i understand what she sees as the upsides of a good deal and the downsides of no deal.

i see also the potential upsides of the brexit as allowing trade opportunities beyond europe.

and i understand how important the issue is for her. she’s very serious and committed indeed.

where i see ego coming in is in her inability to see that she cannot deliver what she wants. i understand trying. i understand trying hard. i understand never giving up.

but she’s giving up on her stated goals by insisting that she’s the one and only moses who can deliver the people to the promised land.

i mean, there might be no agreement possible at all, but if there were a viable solution it’s clear she’s not the person to deliver it anymore, and it’s time to voluntarily walk if she cares about national outcomes more than personal triumphs.

yes?

demonrail666 · 05.23.2019, 12:28 PM

Yeah, I can see that. Although I still see her as being driven by something more than that. People close to her have talked about her being deeply Christian and, while she's actually very private about it, I've heard it said that her faith has played a significant role in forming her character (more than her policies, as is usually the case with politicians with strong links to a religion).

!@#$%! · 05.23.2019, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah, I can see that. Although I still see her as being driven by something more than that. People close to her have talked about her being deeply Christian and, while she's actually very private about it, I've heard it said that her faith has played a significant role in forming her character (more than her policies, as is usually the case with politicians with strong links to a religion).

oh yeah i don’t for one second doubt her earnestness and good intentions, but maybe those religious paradigms are framing her choices as matters of personal sacrifice and enduring suffering, when good practical judgment is actually what was needed of her.

she can fight this one on the beaches and the landing grounds and the fields and the streets—but she can’t win, because it seems to me she herself is the problem.

or no? if she’s not the problem, then what is?

or i should ask in a different way: who is she trying to block by staying? boris?

demonrail666 · 05.23.2019, 01:45 PM

She's part of the problem definitely but the fact her own party is split so fundamentally isn't helping her.

I don't think she's actively looking to block anyone specifically. She obviously thinks she's the best person for the job, otherwise she would've never stood as leader to begin with. And I don't think she's that Machiavellian, which, when it comes to negotiating (whether it's with the EU or Parliament or her own party) might be part of her problem. She certainly wouldn't have made it past season 1 in GoT.

There are people in politics who I don't agree with, in terms of policy or how they operate but who I can't help liking. Theresa May's one of those. The most incompetent PM in my lifetime and I disagree with her position on almost everything, but she's always struck me as a fundamentally decent person. I felt the same about John Major - although in fairness he was a far more competent PM than Theresa May.

!@#$%! · 05.23.2019, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

She's part of the problem definitely but the fact her own party is split so fundamentally isn't helping her.

I don't think she's actively looking to block anyone specifically. She obviously thinks she's the best person for the job, otherwise she would've never stood as leader to begin with. And I don't think she's that Machiavellian, which, when it comes to negotiating (whether it's with the EU or Parliament or her own party) might be part of her problem. She certainly wouldn't have made it past season 1 in GoT.

There are people in politics who I don't agree with, in terms of policy or how they operate but who I can't help liking. Theresa May's one of those. The most incompetent PM in my lifetime and I disagree with her position on almost everything, but she's always struck me as a fundamentally decent person. I felt the same about John Major - although in fairness he was a far more competent PM than Theresa May.

ok so i gamed this scenario in my head anyway. i think she wants to prevent a no-deal brexit and she’s the stop against that. she thinks it would be a disaster.

boris is a hard brexiter yes? he could just sit on his ass and do nothing and blam, you’re gone on halloween. no need to do anything in particular.

so as long as she’ there no-dealers are blocked.

but if you want to exit with a deal—who is a good alternative to may?

not 2 years ago, but today... who is the true messiah who can deliver a deal?

she seems to be holding their place.

demonrail666 · 05.23.2019, 04:22 PM

Yeah, everything you say about her wanting to block a no-deal Brexit is a given. But that's true of a majority of MPs within her Party. A majority of MPs within Parliament full stop. But those are the very ones the electorate are turning their back on. Not that I think it even matters if a hard-Brexiter replaces her. I'd say most Leave supporters would now sooner vote for Farage than anyone within the conservative party, or any of the mainstream parties for that matter, just as I can ultimately see the more progressive wing of the electorate looking beyond Corbyn for their own Farage.

!@#$%! · 05.23.2019, 04:28 PM

sssssso..... you’re saying a majority of the electorate is already in favor of a no-deal, hard brexit?

demonrail666 · 05.23.2019, 05:25 PM

No, I'm saying that Theresa May is dying on a hill fighting for something that neither the Leave or the Remain side are ever gonna consider a victory. At best the remainers will see a soft Brexit as preferable to a hard Brexit while the Leavers will at best see it as preferable to no Brexit at all - although in the case of May's actual proposals, they're worse.

!@#$%! · 05.23.2019, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

No, I'm saying that Theresa May is dying on a hill fighting for something that neither the Leave or the Remain side are ever gonna consider a victory. At best the remainers will see a soft Brexit as preferable to a hard Brexit while the Leavers will at best see it as preferable to no Brexit at all - although in the case of May's actual proposals, they're worse.

but can she propose *anything* that a majority will agree upon?

the last round of indicative votes i recall “no hard brexit” had an overwhelming majority

but when it came time to agree on a positive proposal, i think customs union had the most votes but not enough to win. yes?

i think it’s gonna be hard brexit by default... especially if boris takes over. no?

since nobody can agree on anything... that... or revocation?

demonrail666 · 05.23.2019, 11:43 PM

The EU are predicting we'll ask for another extension in October.

I just don't know.

demonrail666 · 05.24.2019, 04:09 AM

Anyway, she's just now announced her resignation.

!@#$%! · 05.24.2019, 06:56 AM

ah yes i wasnt awake for that but saw first thing.

funny story the pound rose upon news of her resignation but then fell back again because evidently nobody else can do shit.

or at least that’s my interpretation of the charts, lol. google gbp/usd or eur/gbp for example

and im no prophet but i disagree with the october prediction. if you get boris i believe you’re gone.

[failed boris photo]

05.22.2019, 03:52 PM	#441
choc e-Claire expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 2,460	Who on earth is Andrea Leadsom? I've literally never heard of her __________________ Making myself up as I go along. Check out my music-themed blog, 79:57.
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05.23.2019, 06:41 AM	#443
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	this is the live thread for today https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sign-live-news “she’s being hounded out of office” — eta: television for most things https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 07:21 AM	#444
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	If you're enjoying this soap opera, just wait until the real fun starts, when the Leave and Remain sides of the party go toe-to-toe trying to find a replacement. Everyone said the EU question would eventually destroy the Tories and it looks like that's precisely what'll happen. More surprising is the chaos it's causing in Labour but I ultimately see it finishing them, too. I'll be glad to see the back of both of them.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 07:26 AM	#445
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	was gonna reply but instant reshuffle, look
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 07:40 AM	#446
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	Haha. Hard not to find equivalence with the old 'rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic' quote. She'll be ordering a new settee for No. 10 next.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 09:38 AM	#447
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	i don’t understand why she doesn’t quit already. enduring pain for a cause i understand. enduring it for sheer ego is silly. — now they just milkshaked a little old man damn! i’d feel more sorry for him if it weren’t for piers morgan talking about him (glad you guys took morgan back, here he was a pestilence)
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 12:28 PM	#450
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	Yeah, I can see that. Although I still see her as being driven by something more than that. People close to her have talked about her being deeply Christian and, while she's actually very private about it, I've heard it said that her faith has played a significant role in forming her character (more than her policies, as is usually the case with politicians with strong links to a religion).
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 01:45 PM	#452
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	She's part of the problem definitely but the fact her own party is split so fundamentally isn't helping her. I don't think she's actively looking to block anyone specifically. She obviously thinks she's the best person for the job, otherwise she would've never stood as leader to begin with. And I don't think she's that Machiavellian, which, when it comes to negotiating (whether it's with the EU or Parliament or her own party) might be part of her problem. She certainly wouldn't have made it past season 1 in GoT. There are people in politics who I don't agree with, in terms of policy or how they operate but who I can't help liking. Theresa May's one of those. The most incompetent PM in my lifetime and I disagree with her position on almost everything, but she's always struck me as a fundamentally decent person. I felt the same about John Major - although in fairness he was a far more competent PM than Theresa May.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 04:22 PM	#454
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	Yeah, everything you say about her wanting to block a no-deal Brexit is a given. But that's true of a majority of MPs within her Party. A majority of MPs within Parliament full stop. But those are the very ones the electorate are turning their back on. Not that I think it even matters if a hard-Brexiter replaces her. I'd say most Leave supporters would now sooner vote for Farage than anyone within the conservative party, or any of the mainstream parties for that matter, just as I can ultimately see the more progressive wing of the electorate looking beyond Corbyn for their own Farage.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 04:28 PM	#455
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	sssssso..... you’re saying a majority of the electorate is already in favor of a no-deal, hard brexit?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 05:25 PM	#456
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	No, I'm saying that Theresa May is dying on a hill fighting for something that neither the Leave or the Remain side are ever gonna consider a victory. At best the remainers will see a soft Brexit as preferable to a hard Brexit while the Leavers will at best see it as preferable to no Brexit at all - although in the case of May's actual proposals, they're worse.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.23.2019, 11:43 PM	#458
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	The EU are predicting we'll ask for another extension in October. I just don't know.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.24.2019, 04:09 AM	#459
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	Anyway, she's just now announced her resignation.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.24.2019, 06:56 AM	#460
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	ah yes i wasnt awake for that but saw first thing. funny story the pound rose upon news of her resignation but then fell back again because evidently nobody else can do shit. or at least that’s my interpretation of the charts, lol. google gbp/usd or eur/gbp for example and im no prophet but i disagree with the october prediction. if you get boris i believe you’re gone. [failed boris photo]
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|