[!@#$%!]

eta: and i get the notion of borrowing from previous texts (poe, homer) instead of just describing something yourself. i guess poe and homer were so alive to him that he didn’t feel the need to go into details, but to me great writing fucks you up instead of telling you how fucked up the narrator feels. yeah. some anxiety of influence would have helped him here i guess. go beyond poe, kill or erase or split from poe, or at least die trying. but anyway yes— a good idea. i agree with that when i see past my aesthetic prejudices.

[!@#$%!]

ok i’ll stop with this. this is how poe sees his monster:

——

Uplifting my eyes from the page, they fell upon the naked face of the hill, and upon an object — upon some living monster of hideous conformation, which very rapidly made its way from the summit to the bottom, disappearing finally in the dense forest below. As this creature first came in sight, I doubted my own sanity — or at least the evidence of my own eyes; and many minutes passed before I succeeded in convincing myself that I was neither mad nor in a dream. Yet when I describe the monster, (which I distinctly saw, and calmly surveyed through the whole period of its progress,) my readers, I fear, will feel more difficulty in being convinced of these points than even I did myself.

Estimating the size of the creature by comparison with the diameter of the large trees near which it passed — the few giants of the forest which had escaped the fury of the land-slide — I concluded it to be far larger than any ship of the line in existence. I say ship of the line, because the shape of the monster suggested the idea — the hull of one of our seventy-fours might convey a very tolerable conception of the general outline. The mouth of the animal was situated at the extremity of a proboscis some sixty or seventy feet in length, and about as thick as the body of an ordinary elephant. Near the root of this trunk was an immense quantity of black shaggy hair — more than could have been supplied by the coats of a score of buffaloes; and projecting from this hair downwardly and laterally, sprang two gleaming tusks not unlike those of the wild boar, but of infinitely greater dimension. Extending forward, parallel with the proboscis, and on each side of it, was a gigantic staff, thirty or forty feet in length, formed seemingly of pure crystal, and in shape a perfect prism: — it reflected in the most gorgeous manner the rays of the declining sun. The trunk was fashioned like a wedge with the apex to the earth. From it there were outspread two pairs of wings — each wing nearly one hundred yards in length — one pair being placed above the other, and all thickly covered with metal scales; each scale apparently some ten or twelve feet in diameter. I observed that the upper and lower tiers of wings were connected by a strong chain. But the chief peculiarity of this horrible thing, was the representation of a Death’s Head, which covered nearly the whole surface of its breast, and which was as accurately traced in glaring white, upon the dark ground of the body, as if it had been there carefully designed by an artist. While I regarded this terrific animal, and more especially the appearance on its breast, with a feeling of horror and awe — with a sentiment of forthcoming evil, which I found it impossible to quell by any effort of the reason, I perceived the huge jaws at the extremity of the proboscis, suddenly expand themselves, and from them there proceeded a sound so loud and so expressive of woe, that it struck upon my nerves like a knell, and as the monster disappeared at the foot of the hill, I fell at once, fainting, to the floor.

—

notice how instead of screaming and moaning and repeating how it’s beyond and horrifying with so many adjectives and adverbs, he gives you a clear as fuck description so you can hallucinate it right along with him—and then he just faints.

i fucking love him.

[!@#$%!]

(can’t help myself)

ok but philosophically though they’re the opposite—

one is saying: look at this horrors! they can be explained away by reason. (at least in these “tells of raciocination”. because in the telltale heart—no.)

the other is saying: reason (which explained away the old horrors) will open the door to new ones.

my problem again is these new horrors looked too much like the monsters of old. but ok ok ok *i will shut up now.*

[tw2113]

Made it up to Chapter 8 so far. I'm trying to read more during weekends.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

a good idea. i agree with that when i see past my aesthetic prejudices.

That's essentially it.

Obviously you wrote loads, too much to address properly, but I basically agree. As a writer he stands alongside names like Edgar Rice Burroughs and Robert E. Howard. Poe is a different class.

But as you eventually concede, HPL's vagueness is largely the point: he's demonstrating the futility of the human mind trying to describe things that by their nature are beyond our human understanding. Part of why the whole mythos is interesting to me and so many others is it provides a gradual piecing together of vague fragments of information only glimpsed at in individual stories, so you get a greater (though crucially never complete) sense of the whole. So the tingle you (and I) get from a single passage by Poe, I also get from the slow accumulation of information that HPL hints at across multiple stories.

[!@#$%!]

oooh i see

sorta how lord of the rings leads to dungeons & dragons leads to modern rpg computer games and the whole “fantasy” sword & sorcery pulp genre and myriads of movies.

the prose stinks but the mythos informs all kinds of everything.

i see now. i should read the synopsis of all his work xD

(but seriously.)

[Severian]

I’ve missed a lot.


But I think it’s obvious that Lovecraft’s ideas have inspired some of the best works of horror and science fiction. His writing is not great literature, but it’s still great... I suppose the B movie comparison works, but I think it’s a bit harsh.

I think we can all agree that it’s the ideas behind his stories that make Lovecraft’s the true father of horror. It’s genuinely scary shit. The writing might not be top tier, butthe effect of the writing makes it great.

Very few writers can truly scare me. Lovecraft is one of them. And it creeps up on you. “The Picture in the House,” though short and simple, struck me like a bolt of lightning. The ominousness with which the threat is built up and conveyed to the reader is excellent. When I finished it, I just sat there for at least 10 minutes, meditating on the genuine fear I had experienced. It triggered a visceral response, so... I say it’s good shit.

Lovecraft’s work is not trash culture (like B-movies). It’s legitimately successful at what it sets out to do, which is to terrify.

I also think it has some merit philosophically. He fact that this man whose work focused so much on the infinitesimal smallness of man has terrified and inspired generations of horror writers says a great deal about the archetypal fears of human beings. It’s some primordial shit.

[!@#$%!]

you’re terrified but i keep laughing at the frogman in the window!

 

ok i’ll read that painted house and cthulhu as well

but look at my objections up there and let me know

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

you’re terrified but i keep laughing at the frogman in the window!

ok i’ll read that painted house and cthulhu as well

but look at my objections up there and let me know

Ok, I will take a look. About halfway through now, but can’t finish just yet. Just wanted to let you know I’m paying attention.

“The Picture in the Room” is not a fan favorite. It’s a favorite of mine, personally. My girlfriend is huge on Lovecraft, and when I mentioned it to her she struggled to remember what it was. So maybe not the best place to start, but “Call of Cthulhu,” definitely.

[!@#$%!]

ok i put the quoted text in bold to make it more readable (i think).

but yeah.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

 

Kall of Kek-thulhu?

 

 

HPL's dirty little secret that rarely gets mentioned on fan-sites

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Kall of Kek-thulhu?

 

 

HPL's dirty little secret that rarely gets mentioned on fan-sites

oh ha ha ha

fuck him then. i’ll continue making fun of his bad writing.

one of my favorite writers, francisco de quevedo, a spanish from the golden age (16-17th century), was a fucking racist—but he was actually very funny. i don’t mean that his racist jokes made him funny— he was hilarious in general. but yeah he ridiculed the moors, vilified the jews, and was generally an upper class snot who made enemies everywhere. sure it was another era but you can spot a hater through the centuries—had a real poison pen. still talented as fuck though. VIDA DEL BUSCON is a fucking riot to read. and his poems— wow.

[demonrail666]

Yeah, I've read people make excuses for him, that it was just the time, but it seems that even by the standards of the age he was extreme. He came from old Providence society but his family lost all its money and he seemed to equate their decline with the arrival into America of what he called 'lower races'. The only real debate is the extent to which his politics fed into his actual mythos writing. Certainly it's there in stories like Shadow over Innsmouth.

It is what it is. I suppose. Like the whole Wagner thing.

[ilduclo]

Thanks for that demon, I'll mention it to my friend...maybe he'll change his tattoo? But not to Woodrow, who was equally bad... Fuck, speaking of rehab of racist asshats, how's about the new Winston C fluffing picture!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah, I've read people make excuses for him, that it was just the time, but it seems that even by the standards of the age he was extreme. He came from old Providence society but his family lost all its money and he seemed to equate their decline with the arrival into America of what he called 'lower races'. The only real debate is the extent to which his politics fed into his actual mythos writing. Certainly it's there in stories like Shadow over Innsmouth.

It is what it is. I suppose. Like the whole Wagner thing.

I thought we all knew Lovecraft was a disturbingly racist fuck... right?

I mean, “negro” and similar language about skin tone comes up in even his most popular writing.

But, Jesus, it was the 1930s. I can say with confidence that the writing (ideas) are awesome while knowing the author was a bigoted fuck just like roughly 33 percent of Americans today, and not feel bad about deriving pleasure from his stories.

Is that shitty of me? I mean, John Lennon put the N-word in a song title. Granted, it was a political statement from a much more progressive and evolved human specimen (though still terribly flawed).

Shit, am I a racism-apologist?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

I thought we all knew Lovecraft was a disturbingly racist fuck... right?

I mean, “negro” and similar language about skin tone comes up in even his most popular writing.

But, Jesus, it was the 1930s. I can say with confidence that the writing (ideas) are awesome while knowing the author was a bigoted fuck just like roughly 33 percent of Americans today, and not feel bad about deriving pleasure from his stories.

Is that shitty of me? I mean, John Lennon put the N-word in a song title. Granted, it was a political statement from a much more progressive and evolved human specimen (though still terribly flawed).

Shit, am I a racism-apologist?

nah man, you’re just a nazi-lover

but no, seriously, it’s somewhat separable. i don’t buy the puritan credo of moral absolutism that leads to witch burnings. i’m jesuitic in my moral reasoning i guess. i see a lot of grey areas in human life and accept many failings and contradictions and try to see the good in the shit.

but he still sucks ha ha ha ha ha. yeah.

[Rob Instigator]

a beautiful sculpture is a beautiful sculpture regardless of the faults/beliefs/agenda/ignorance of the sculptor

the same goes for all works of art.

Literature is harder to accept as pure art because words are LOADED with semantic variation, causing people to apply the writer's own personality to the work being created, but it should still be viewed as pure art.

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

Thanks for that demon, I'll mention it to my friend...maybe he'll change his tattoo? But not to Woodrow, who was equally bad... Fuck, speaking of rehab of racist asshats, how's about the new Winston C fluffing picture!

Get to fuck.

The story isn't about Churchill the anti-NHS, anti-welfare conservative dick. The story is about what happened, and what he did during WWII, and for that he was absolutely the right person for it. That leads to the film.

I remember a few years ago there was a massive poll done by the BBC about to find "the greatest Britain". Now, ignoring how ridiculous it is to ask something like that, Churchill came top of the poll. At the time I was baffled. It was too many people ignoring what he did outside of the war and going straight to flag waving patriotism. When it's something like that it's right to question him and who he was as a person. However, it can't be denied what he did for Britain during the war was very much for the benefit.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

nah man, you’re just a nazi-lover

but no, seriously, it’s somewhat separable. i don’t buy the puritan credo of moral absolutism that leads to witch burnings. i’m jesuitic in my moral reasoning i guess. i see a lot of grey areas in human life and accept many failings and contradictions and try to see the good in the shit.

but he still sucks ha ha ha ha ha. yeah.

Thanks. I guess I see it things the same way (for the *most* part, not always — for instance, that rapper who kidnapped his girlfriend and raped her and tortured her and held her hostage? Yeah, fuck that cunt. Even if his music was good I wouldn’t listen) ... but I appreciate your use of the word Jesuitic, as I think it’s definitely a good word for it, and one I can understand.

Anyhoo, as a scientifically-minded, journalistically-inclined reader, I have some problems with Lovecraft’s studied “style” or lack thereof — a conflagration of what he perceived to be academic, journalistic and philosophical, though I think he had only a fleeting grasp of what any of those styles actually looked like when done *well.*

He’s kinda like a Don Draper (sorry, still addicted to Mad Men, almost done with it tho!) ... an legitimately brilliant “idea man” with only a child’s understanding of the very things he aspired to be, and eventually became.

I still think it’s far from bad writing, but I have my beefs, to be sure. And he got better over time too.

But yeah ... racist fuck, for suresies.

[!@#$%!]

forget the word “negro” for a moment which even mlk and malcolm x used. just tell me what happened here? ‘in your own words,” as they say:

The professor had been stricken whilst returning from the Newport boat; falling suddenly, as witnesses said, after having been jostled by a nautical-looking negro who had come from one of the queer dark courts on the precipitous hillside which formed a short cut from the waterfront to the deceased’s home in Williams Street.