[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

forget the word “negro” for a moment which even mlk and malcolm x used. just tell me what happened here? ‘in your own words,” as they say:

The professor had been stricken whilst returning from the Newport boat; falling suddenly, as witnesses said, after having been jostled by a nautical-looking negro who had come from one of the queer dark courts on the precipitous hillside which formed a short cut from the waterfront to the deceased’s home in Williams Street.

Dude was shoved down a hill (seriously). Keep reading.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

forget the word “negro” for a moment which even mlk and malcolm x used. just tell me what happened here? ‘in your own words,” as they say:

The professor had been stricken whilst returning from the Newport boat; falling suddenly, as witnesses said, after having been jostled by a nautical-looking negro who had come from one of the queer dark courts on the precipitous hillside which formed a short cut from the waterfront to the deceased’s home in Williams Street.

homecheese was walking home, was jostled by a black sailor (probably from Ivory Coast) who had come from the shanties.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

Dude was shoved down a hill (seriously). Keep reading.

he makes it difficult. seriously. my eyes glaze over this shit.

i went over to the stupid clay tablet and the inspector and the professor and the “esquimaux”

life is too short for reading to be a painful chore. like eating a shit sandwich

 

yes yes obvious surprise the monster is gonna be real. no fuckin kidding. wings and tentacles. oooooo.

im much more afraid of dioxins

jeeezus there were so many great writers in the 20s why waste time with this jumbled garbage. i’ll read the clifff notes and be done. if someone offered to pay me to continue i’d turn down the job.

you wanna read something good go read ubu roi. it’s from 189fucking6 and way ahead of its time, not backwards.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

homecheese was walking home, was jostled by a black sailor (probably from Ivory Coast) who had come from the shanties.

much more readable than that trash

precipitous hillside where my huevos

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

he makes it difficult. seriously. my eyes glaze over this shit.

i went over to the stupid clay tablet and the inspector and the professor and the “esquimaux”

life is too short for reading to be a painful chore. like eating a shit sandwich

 

yes yes obvious surprise the monster is gonna be real. no fuckin kidding. wings and tentacles. oooooo.

im much more afraid of dioxins

jeeezus there were so many great writers in the 20s why waste time with this jumbled garbage. i’ll read the clifff notes and be done. if someone offered to pay me to continue i’d turn down the job.

you wanna read something good go read ubu roi. it’s from 189fucking6 and way ahead of its time, not backwards.

Dude, fair enough, but his stories are the bedrock of an entire genre. For better or worse, dude was inventive as fuck.

There are some anthologies out there where other, better authors like Neil Gaiman and... I dunno, some others... write ABOUT Lovecraft characters, or in a Lovecraftian style. I haven’t read any of them, but maybe they’d be cool.
Gaiman is one of my favorites, and he’s taken Lovecraft’s love of made-up mythologies and pushed it into a more dynamic direction, where it’s not really Horror or even fantasy anymore, but something akin to (very) adult fairy tales, rooted in real mythologies, be they Celtcic, Norse or what have you.

Anyhoodle...

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Get to fuck.

The story isn't about Churchill the anti-NHS, anti-welfare conservative dick. The story is about what happened, and what he did during WWII, and for that he was absolutely the right person for it. That leads to the film.

I remember a few years ago there was a massive poll done by the BBC about to find "the greatest Britain". Now, ignoring how ridiculous it is to ask something like that, Churchill came top of the poll. At the time I was baffled. It was too many people ignoring what he did outside of the war and going straight to flag waving patriotism. When it's something like that it's right to question him and who he was as a person. However, it can't be denied what he did for Britain during the war was very much for the benefit.

I remember that poll and felt the same as you when the result came in (I think I backed Brunel at the time) but I agree that, at possibly the most critical time in the Country's history, at leat in the modern era, he came into his own in a way I'm not sure anyone else would have.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

Dude, fair enough, but his stories are the bedrock of an entire genre. For better or worse, dude was inventive as fuck.

There are some anthologies out there where other, better authors like Neil Gaiman and... I dunno, some others... write ABOUT Lovecraft characters, or in a Lovecraftian style. I haven’t read any of them, but maybe they’d be cool.
Gaiman is one of my favorites, and he’s taken Lovecraft’s love of made-up mythologies and pushed it into a more dynamic direction, where it’s not really Horror or even fantasy anymore, but something akin to (very) adult fairy tales, rooted in real mythologies, be they Celtcic, Norse or what have you.

Anyhoodle...

what’s so inventive about “cyclopean” this or that? inventive were the people who came up with the cyclops.

anyway, sure, the aggregated mythology: i got it already when demoño explained it.

this is why i said i’ll read the cliff notes: to get the mythology without paying the troll toll.

but no fucking way i’m eating the shit sandwich.

—

ETA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos plus links

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Severian

Dude, fair enough, but his stories are the bedrock of an entire genre. For better or worse, dude was inventive as fuck.

There are some anthologies out there where other, better authors like Neil Gaiman and... I dunno, some others... write ABOUT Lovecraft characters, or in a Lovecraftian style. I haven’t read any of them, but maybe they’d be cool.
Gaiman is one of my favorites, and he’s taken Lovecraft’s love of made-up mythologies and pushed it into a more dynamic direction, where it’s not really Horror or even fantasy anymore, but something akin to (very) adult fairy tales, rooted in real mythologies, be they Celtcic, Norse or what have you.

Anyhoodle...

Those anthologies are obviously hit and miss but the better ones are excellent. Certainly not just fan-fiction.

If you want to sample one, Dead But Dreaming edited by Kevin Ross has some great stories.

If you want to try a single authored collection that's clearly Lovecraftian (without necessarily making direct references to the mythos) Thomas Ligotti's Songs of a Dead Dreamer/Grimscribe has some of the best horror writing I think I've ever read, period.

 

[evollove]

I think I read Pet Semetary in grade school because I liked the movie, but I'm too much of a snob to know what you guys are talking about.

But I'm curious: does horror really scare? I mean, are there really stories/novels that actually freak you out as much as a movie can?

I remember In Cold Blood scaring me when I read it in high school, so I know the written word can provoke fear, but I think Capote's book is far removed from the current discussion.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

I think I read Pet Semetary in grade school because I liked the movie, but I'm too much of a snob to know what you guys are talking about.

But I'm curious: does horror really scare? I mean, are there really stories/novels that actually freak you out as much as a movie can?

I remember In Cold Blood scaring me when I read it in high school, so I know the written word can provoke fear, but I think Capote's book is far removed from the current discussion.

right? im scared about the possibility of a pair of real killers arriving to my doorstep. giant tentacles make me laugh.

and then theres dioxins. fucking dioxins everywhere

did you know that in england 80% of the population live within a couple of miles of a landfill?

now that would fucking frighten me if i were english

me, i have other problems, like living in a radioactive state where the baseball team is called “the isotopes”

im also scared of our real life ubu roi. the play is hilarious though.

[evollove]

Well, I didn't mean to disparage anyone who is scared by giant tentacles. I was just genuinely and non-judgmentally curious to know if that was really possible.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Those anthologies are obviously hit and miss but the better ones are excellent. Certainly not just fan-fiction.

If you want to sample one, Dead But Dreaming edited by Kevin Ross has some great stories.

If you want to try a single authored collection that's clearly Lovecraftian (without necessarily making direct references to the mythos) Thomas Ligotti's Songs of a Dead Dreamer/Grimscribe has some of the best horror writing I think I've ever read, period.

 

i might look at this one day

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

Well, I didn't mean to disparage anyone who is scared by giant tentacles. I was just genuinely and non-judgmentally curious to know if that was really possible.

yeah i didn’t mean it disparaginly but maybe i was feeling a little salty after trying to read that piece of shit. it really made me fucking angry, like the music they play at the supermarket.

i can get scared by giant tentacles provided a physical stimulus, like with a movie where the surprise comes through the senses. then concept alone does not scare me. but the concept of a real life killer showing up at my house does— this is why i keep actual weapons.

this is the thing, i guess— good writing makes you hallucinate, bad writing is pins and needles in the eyes. vague words and inadequate syntax give me a headache.

maybe if someone could make me hallucinate the giant tentacles i would get scared. but the dead white longfaced shitbird with the clunky prose doesn’t. someone else might though.

oh i remember reading interview with the vampire ages ago. i wasn’t scared of vampires themselves, but i read it cover to cover in a hurry regardless cuz it was kinda thrilling.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Those anthologies are obviously hit and miss but the better ones are excellent. Certainly not just fan-fiction.

If you want to sample one, Dead But Dreaming edited by Kevin Ross has some great stories.

If you want to try a single authored collection that's clearly Lovecraftian (without necessarily making direct references to the mythos) Thomas Ligotti's Songs of a Dead Dreamer/Grimscribe has some of the best horror writing I think I've ever read, period.

 

Yes, we’ve talked about this before right? The Yellow King and whatnot? I actually thought he was pre-Lovecraft... ? Or am I just confused because his stories hop around in Time a bit?

Hmm... I remember finding free — apparently public domain — writings from some author you recommended online, and reading with the intention of learning more about the inspiration behind the (still unbelievable) True Detective season 1 (what with the Yellow King and all).

Huh.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

Hmm... I remember finding free — apparently public domain — writings from some author you recommended online, and reading with the intention of learning more about the inspiration behind the (still unbelievable) True Detective season 1 (what with the Yellow King and all).

Huh.

ambrose bierce was the first one to come up with carcosa. then one robert chambers and lovecraft himself ripped off the name. the chambers dude added the yellow king. no—the king in yellow.

bierce also came up (thanks wikipedia!) with the monster that ends up as cthulhu’s half brother. h— something.

you ever read ambrose bierce? i’ve only read his devil’s dictionary and it’s hilarious.

“an inhabitant of carcosa” is in this book: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4366

which i’m tempted to read now

—-

i was just browsing inside the book and hastur is “god of shepherds” not a monster (yet).

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by evollove

I'm curious: does horror really scare? I mean, are there really stories/novels that actually freak you out as much as a movie can?

Personally yes, some really do. But it's a different kind of scary to what I get from a film. Funnily enough I'd put Pet Semetary in the category of horror stories that I find genuinely frightening. But then, whatever else people might say about Stephen King, he's a horror writer that I'd say does scary better than almost anyone. Peter Straub's another one. On the other hand Poe's brilliant but I don't find his stories remotely frightening.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

I think I read Pet Semetary in grade school because I liked the movie, but I'm too much of a snob to know what you guys are talking about.

But I'm curious: does horror really scare? I mean, are there really stories/novels that actually freak you out as much as a movie can?

I remember In Cold Blood scaring me when I read it in high school, so I know the written word can provoke fear, but I think Capote's book is far removed from the current discussion.

In Cold Blood is terrifying. Lovecraft is not *always* truly terrifying, and definitely never in the same way as ICB, but it’s possible to acknowledge that both are bloody terrifying.

So is, like “Wait until Dark”

Originally Posted by evollove

Well, I didn't mean to disparage anyone who is scared by giant tentacles. I was just genuinely and non-judgmentally curious to know if that was really possible.

No, giant tentacles” don’t scare me. But Lovecraft isn’t “giant tentacles.”
He wrote a lot of stories that have nothing to do with the Ancient Ones or the Cthuhlu mythos.

But, a lot of his stories deal with madness in various forms, and what causes it and how it descends upon someone (usually for goddamn good reasons, considering the circumstances)

The idea that humans are pawns in a scheme of beings that are malevolence incarnate, so beyond our capacity to imagine that mere knowledge of their existence is enough to drive us to suicide or worse, is scary to me.

Giant cosmic demons the size of small planets lurking under the sea, waiting for society’s collective anxiety to feed them and bring about an era of pure hatred and holocaust... that, in the right hands, is some scary shit. To me anyway.

Of course, every horror book you’ve ever read is a copy of a copy of a Lovecraft idea, so I’d understand if it didn’t work for everyone. Some people think Stephen King is terrifying. Do talking cars terrify you? King, like Gaiman, took pieces of Lovecraft and built his own style around it, in a different, far less literary, direction than Gaiman.

Either way, Horror is whatever scares you.

[Severian]

^^ in other words, fear/paranoia/anxiety scares me.

The idea of fear/paranoia/anxiety are not simply a BAD perspective on a beutral reality, but are actually the most ACCURATE, and ultimately MERCIFUL of mindsets, because these feelings suggest that you are at least partially aware of a “real” reality so horrifying it can’t be perceived.... that idea scares me.

Scares the fuck out of me.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ambrose bierce was the first one to come up with carcosa. then one robert chambers and lovecraft himself ripped off the name. the chambers dude added the yellow king. no—the king in yellow.

bierce also came up (thanks wikipedia!) with the monster that ends up as cthulhu’s half brother. h— something.

you ever read ambrose bierce? i’ve only read his devil’s dictionary and it’s hilarious.

“an inhabitant of carcosa” is in this book: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4366

which i’m tempted to read now

—-

i was just browsing inside the book and hastur is “god of shepherds” not a monster (yet).

Yeah, devil’s dictionary and perhaps some short stories? Name very familiar. On bookcase somewhere. Will solve mystery.

But no, clearly I’m not a devotee. Read Devil’s Dictionary and a few others maybe.

[!@#$%!]

devils dictionary used to sell as those $1 dover thrift editions and had a red cover and you could pick up anywhere. the internet i think killed that business model.

anyway i agree with you that horror is whatever scares you but i have a bone to pick with the notion that hatecraft is at the root of every horror story one has ever read. i mean this statement:

Originally Posted by Severian

Of course, every horror book you’ve ever read is a copy of a copy of a Lovecraft idea,

we’ve had stories and myths of ghosts and demons and monsters and evil gods and witches and fairytales and scary religions since the dawn of time.

hatecraft himself cites poe and some bulwer dude i had never heard of, then invokes polyphemus and used the world cyclopean because obvious cyclops. and that’s just on page one.

regarding modern fiction, books like frankenstein and dracula were way before and vampires are now everywhere.

i mean even wuthering heights is a fucking work of horror. come on.

but before?

the myth of orpheus is fucking horror.

the book of revelation is a work of horror.

the book of job, where satan and god make bets on the life of some dude. talk about out of control cosmic shit.

the twelve stations of the cross, horror

the snake in the garden of eden

little red riding hood

the divine comedy

the punishments of the titans defeated by the olympian gods

the myth of ragnarok

the popol vuh

etc etc etc

(existence itself is a work of horror, and we’ve been telling stories about that since forever)

however influential the guy might be today (e.g. he’s clearly a big influence on joss whedon) he didn’t come up with his shit from the vacuum. if anything it’s a pastiche of previous attractions. huge demons from under teh sea—hello, leviathan? the kraken? captain nemo fighting a giant plate of calamari? (ha ha). sailors since time immemorial have been terrified of giant underwater creatures which have accrued layers and layers of significance in their evolution. oh, the mesopotamian goddess tiamat is the oldest i know of.

the more i read about this the more i see demonyo’s point. looks like he was a kind of seed for a very large fictional universe like the one tolkien begat in the fantasy genre. (but tolkien also borrowed from earlier mythologies and sagas and a lot more). and it’s become large and coherent in a way he never intended. but to paraphrase obama, he didnt do that.

anyway seems like lovecraft has had a lot of homages and imitators in our day, but he himself was paying homage and imitating his predecessors. who are legion.

which, you know, is perfectly fine, because it’s what literature always does anyway.

i understand that he can be an important nexus in the genre, but that’s not the same as him having invented everything.