[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

as to demonrail, you're totally right (a) USA is definitely the most likable team left and (b) we were way smart to stick to what we are good at rather than get in over our heads trying to attack against teams we had no business attacking. We aren't THAT good yet, we would have been thoroughly dissected if we had even remotely tried that shit...

Sometimes !@#$%! your thorough knowledge of futbol tactics goes against you, as in this case, the strategy you suggested is perfectly reasonable way to draw or win against teams like Germany and Portugal... however the US simply doesn't have the kind of strong offense, particular on dribble and shot creation to pull off some fancy shit. You got to crawl before you can walk, especially if crawling just sent Portugal and Ghana the fuck home empty handed. To recap.. in 2002 USA sent Portugal home. In 2006 and 2010 Ghana sent USA home.. I dare say we have some budding rivalries there

[!@#$%!]

@suchfriends re: tactics & strategy-- offense is not intrinsically harder than defense. sure, defense maybe comes first, but to attack we don't need great dribbling and creativity.

we have speed and power and decent passing-- exactly the same that costa rica used to win their group. i guarantee you if costa rica had said "oh, we're going to face the mighty uruguay, the legendary italy, let's park the bus and hope for the best" they would have lost big. their boldness has been their strength. granted i haven't seen them vs. england.

my issue is that usa has way better attackers than defenders. our attackers perform better. with ghana, on the attack, we scored twice. on the defense, they scored and we couldn't counterattack successfully even once. moreover, our first goal vs portugal was the fault of a bumbling fuckup who fucked up in front of the goal. our attackers don't fuck up like that.

our fullbacks are alright, they can mark wingers and they can help on the attack, but our central defenders are the fucking plague. i remember them the other day vs. portugal they were making some really stupid passes right in front of the goal AFTER the cameron fuckup, and i'm screaming "fucker, don't give it up a 2nd time!" fucking clueless.

costa rica doesn't have very technical players either and wins by attacking as well. i get it that weak teams often can survive by parking the bus, but i don't believe we can endure like this because as much as we lack the shot creation or great dribbling, we lack good defending even worse. if it weren't for beckermann as holding midfielder we'd be ten-times boned. we often hanged by a cunthair today.

then again i'm not the manager and klinsmann knows his players better, so losing 1-0 to germany is perhaps is a victory of sorts, but it could have easily gone 3-0 though. we were under siege -- we were buried and hopeless and we couldn't control our fate.

the usa doesn't have the technical chops for counterattacking quicky-- they get fucking entangled in the midfield with bradley losing balls and stuck again we are. we do better when we go forward in earnest. we have a better chance to run through at the wings with speed and power and some perpared passes, then put in some crosses or cut in to shoot-- we used some obviously rehearsed triangulation vs. portugal to win, but on the defense we died every time.

u.s. can't win on the defense. period. the evidence is right there if you break down the matches in their various phases. attack = win. defend = lose.

ps- for clarification, i'm not saying let the opponent run rampant, of course you need to defend, but defending by pressing high up the pitch has been for us much more successful than sitting back against our own goal. CR has done just that and killed 2 giants.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I disagree with you completely about USA being better attackers than defenders, if anything, defense is our one true strength and what year after year keeps us in ball games we otherwise have no business winning.

To be sure, our defense looked pretty bad, but I think that is not our defenses' fault, its the difficulty of the Group we played in.

Think about this, we held Germany to its lowest scoring match in YEARS, we held a potent Ghanian team to only one goal, and ALMOST held Portugal to one goal.

When you say our defense looked better pressing high rather than in front of our own goal, I disagree, some of our best stops and saves obviously came in front of our own goal and they WEREN'T made by Tim Howard, so clearly guys got it down when it counts. I think YOU ARE right that we shouldn't ONLY be doing this, rather we should ADD to our goal line defense some more attacking when available and definitely press a bit higher on the pitch to thwart Belgium's offense. You are totally right, when Beasley, Dempsey, Zusi, or most pleasantly surprisingly Jermaine Jones are on the attack, their speed has been hard for other teams to catch up, but time and time again, especially against Ghana and Germany (great defensive teams) our attacks got to crazy and we lost control of the ball before we could shoot or we lost control and defenses were able to get set and get a save.

While tactically you may be looking for USA defense to do more to stop opponents attacks (which to be sure we didn't), or to get more takeaways (which to be sure we need to do against Belgium), or simply to otherwise limit opponents finesse yeah, our defense looked sloppy. BUT the results speak for itself, speak what you will about Italy's defense but USA is the one advancing and again, we did it ALL on defense considering Ghana and Portugal tied our goals scored, but we won by having the best goals allowed numbers

[!@#$%!]

yeah we see it totally different. of course bringing everyone back is going to help us "defend" better, but then you have to haul it up from box to box and it becomes too much and we fail.

again you're looking at pure numbers without looking at the movement on the pitch.

against ghana we were best attacking in the first minute and going on the attack again after they fucked us and we wanted another goal. we were worse defending our 1 goal advantage and they scored against us.

against portugal again we ruled the game when attacking, especially with johnson/zusi, but fucked up when we sat back to protect our 2-1.

every time we seat back they fuck us.

it's all there in front of everybody's eyes-- this isn't baseball where you can read a game through raw stats.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I see what you're seeing about our attack, I just saw it break down too many times to trust it. You MAY be totally right, and it can POSSIBLY totally be effective, BUT what if it fails?????

The one USA staple is that our defense may not be pretty, it may not look like it does its job, but the results always speak for itself. A WIN is a WIN, a DRAW is a DRAW, and a very close loss can still sent you on to the next rounds, so really, that has become our bread and butter. You're right, our defense didn't look particularly great, but again, I FEEL that is more credit due to Germany/Portugal/Ghana than it is a shot against our defense, especially since for all that those teams dominated the possession time, attacks, and shots on goal, one thing remains, we advanced and two out of three of those obviously better teams didn't.

One thing I don't like is how Jurgen has changed our Corner Kick strategies.. Sometimes we don't even take the free kick rather dribble it out or pass it out, that is a total waste because Corner Kicks have been one of the most potent USA scoring methods for like 20 years now, why give that up? Its possibly our only advantage against teams, that we score GREAT from the corners..


Again, we are seeing it the same way, I just think that the better gamble is to stick with what has worked in the past and indeed what worked in this tournament, to lets say "half park the bus"

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Hence why I think that in a way we're BOTH right..

USA definitely needs to attack more, but just do it smartly. As to our defense, we also need to improve our press, but I think to give up our "half parking the bus" style which has more or less shut out three of the best offenses in the world while we play against Belgium would almost be suicide. At the least, it'd be Russian Roulette

[!@#$%!]

the reason our attack has been breaking down i think is precisely because it starts too far back.

if we press higher up it's only a short distance to their goal. clint doesn't have to run so much and can use his dribbling and positioning (he's the only one who has it aside from jozy) to score.

pressing higher up, if done successfully, disrupts the other team's attack, it's how costa rica has neutralized opponents. it jams them up in their own half-- takes a lot of running.

i know "if it doesn't work," but sitting back in our area has not worked for us when we have done it. every time in this world cup they have fucked us when we've done it. every time. if portugal had tied us sooner we would have probably beat them 3-2 because we would have gone looking for the goal again.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I agree with that, I just am not sure that under these circumstances that USA can make that kind of offensive adjustment to make the attack more potent.

Again, I agree with you completely though, that against Belgium one way or another we need to attack more consistently like we did against Portugal, since that game the possession time and shots were literally 50-50.. However even in that game some of our attacks just totally broke down, so all the same we need to be cautious, hence why I said attack smartly.

I love Beasley's attack in this Cup, he has been FAST, but somebody has to be there to help, that is kind of our problem. I don't know what its called in futbol, in basketball you call that a fast break, when on defense gets a great takeaway and is the first down the pitch with an opportunity to score one on one. We've had a lot of great opportunities from this kind of play BUT we've also kind of fell on our face a few times too, showing we are getting a bit over our head.

I do disagree with you saying parking the bus hasn't worked, because Germany only scored one goal against us, Ghana only scored one goal against us, and Portugal ALMOST only scored one goal, and indeed ALL those goals they scored were on Tim Howard break downs... All the saves have been a team effort. This is what I am calling "half parking the bus" and I think its saved our ass more times than it hasn't.

TRUE, its not the greatest sign, its not the best way to win or draw, BUT it has worked this far. So to conclude, I agree with your idea that we should attack more, I just disagree with your analysis that our defense has been that bad, we just haven't been that great, however we have the ability to improve. I like your idea to increase the press higher up on the pitch, put that much more pressure on the ball earlier in the possession, indeed that is how Portugal shut down our offense in the second half of our match against them, and they got A LOT of takeaways using that kind of defense. We should do some more of that, and we should attack more when the opportunity is there, but I still think our half parking the bus strategy has been very effective and if all else fails that alone may just be the ticket to beat Belgium.

You are right though, Belgium's defense will NOT be as good as anyone we've played in this Group so we should definitely exploit it and attack more. Just I think we shouldn't try and be an "attack first" kind of team, or Belgium will eat up our mistakes.

[!@#$%!]

when i say "our defense" i don't mean the whole team but more specifically our central defenders, besler and whoever they put in the middle next to him. cameron was particularly shit so i'm glad he wasn't there today.

the break is when you get the ball from the opponent and go on the attack, take advantage of their defenders out of position. fast or slow is up to the team ha ha ha. this is where bradley has fucked us over & over again. he chokes.

anyway i'll have to think more about this before i keep on blabbling-- i'll look at the fourfourtwo app and see what can be spied from it.

good thing tomorrow is a break-- i have to run a bazillion errands ha ha ha ha.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Oh, I totally appreciate your analysis, I also more or less agree with most of it in premise, I'm just not sure the USA can totally implement your suggestions and I think you're overlooking the difficulty of our Group in particular.

[!@#$%!]

oh, i'm not overlooking it-- i had us dead on arrival, remember? so this result is a huge bonus for my perspective.

thing is, i can also see us punching above our weight-- maybe costa rica has been an inspiration. but then again maybe greece fucks them, ha ha ha-- no, colombia will do that on the next round.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I'm telling you (a) Costa Rica didn't surprise me following Concacaf and (b) America is better than Costa Rica so if anything we should be fucking ecstatic!!!

On an unrelated note.. is Lebron that much closer to creating and playing for an Beckham owned MLS team in Miami?????

 

[_tunic_]

Bandwagon Fan Robert De Niro Crashes Brooklyn World Cup House Party

 

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Well I watched the Portugal/Ghana game which seemed to be kicking off pretty well. Then it just turned into a 'two mid-table teams in the final league game of the season' match. Shame Ronaldo didn't have a better World Cup, but there were a couple of great chances saved by Ghana's keeper.

So new question for everyone-Favourite player of the group stage?

Mine has to be either Neymar, who impressed the hell out of me. Especially in the last game. Or Ochoa from Mexico. HE'S A FREE AGENT! Not for much longer though.

Neymar for me too. I've been critical of him but he's answering all his doubters. Although other less high profile players I've really liked have been Argentina's Rojo, Italy's Verratti and Mexico's Ochoa.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Yeah Suarez, you dick

That's one for demonrail (if my memory is right)

No Bruce! I love you to bits but please leave Luis Johnny 99 out of things.

[demonrail666]

My final XI from the last round. Was majorly screwed when Belgium and France fielded radically changed sides.

GK Valladares 9
DF Blind 7
DF Bamba 5
DF Rojo 12
DF Medjani 5
MF De Bruyne 0
MF Di Maria 7
MF W Palacios 5
FW Neymar(c) 32
FW Benzema 4
FW Slimani 9

You already know but the transfer window for the first knockout is now open

[!@#$%!]

Belgium cacked me too. Will post team later.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

oh, i'm not overlooking it-- i had us dead on arrival, remember? so this result is a huge bonus for my perspective.

thing is, i can also see us punching above our weight-- maybe costa rica has been an inspiration. but then again maybe greece fucks them, ha ha ha-- no, colombia will do that on the next round.

I can see both teams having a period very early on when they try to strike first but if neither score in the first say 10 mins I can see them equally retreating in the hope that the other team makes a mistake they can capitalise on. It could easily descend into a tactical stalemate if there isn't an early goal.

Anyway, Brazil Chile in a few hours. Gonna be massive. And Uruguay minus Suarez v Colombia minus Falcao. Could end up giving us our first penalty shoot out. Happy days.

[Cunt]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

So new question for everyone-Favourite player of the group stage?

James Rodríguez.

I think there will be no surprises in this round.
Brazil, Colombia, France, Germany, Netherlands, Greece, Argentina and Belgium should go through.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Cunt

I think there will be no surprises in this round.
Brazil, Colombia, France, Germany, Netherlands, Greece, Argentina and Belgium should go through.

you might be right but i would love to see

chile beat brazil
costa rica beat greece
switzerland beat argentina
usa beat belgium

gimme 2 out of 4 and i'll be happy.

because:

chile is more fun than brazil this year (fifa wont let it happen but one can dream)
costa rica has been a lot of fun
argentina has been frustrating (they'll win though)
'murka! (and belgium, actually, frustrating too)