[tallmanthink]

i like sonic youth

[m^a(t)h]

Originally Posted by Sn@ke

Then you are playing it wrong, where's that tab?, maybe 25% of the notes/chords you are playing are right, the rest are wrong.

If you really want to play that song, check this thread:

http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/sho...4442#post14442

That's my Dirty Boots tab (T's part), I think it is 95% accurate.

I can play that on standard too. Look at what you tabbed out. Its just a bunch of root and fifths (=powerchord) It doesnt warrant the use of alternate tuning....

[Pablitzen]

i'm the other guy who can play some SY songs with standard tunnings...
i can play sunday (i posted some chords time ago), and some thurston songs from Psychic Hearts ...

[m^a(t)h]

Originally Posted by Sn@ke

I would love to hear how do you play dirty boots using standard tuning, you can't play those things, but..who knows, you're da musician!

...oh and good luck trying to play the intro:

Intro:
D|----5-------7-------2-------4-------5-------7-------2-------4------|
E|--3-------5-------0-------2-------3-------5-------0-------2--------|
G|---------------------------------------------------------------etc-|
D|-5---5---7---7---2---2---4---4---5---5---7---7---2---2---4---4-----|
G|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
E|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

I know how are you going to play that using standard tuning, something like this?:

E|-----3----5----0----2-----|
B|--------------------------|
G|--------------------------|
D|--5-5--7-7--2-2--4-4------|
A|--------------------------|
E|--------------------------|

that doesn't sound exactly like the song, you need that low E.

i can play the intro, main progression, and chorus in standard. And no thats not how I play the intro. The fact is you cant get the same exact octaves as the song, but you can get the main idea down and to a casual fan probably pass it off as how they play it. I dont see how this warrants the use of alternate tuning. The tuning is irrelevant for the song. Thurston wasnt thinking how weird he could get it sound. He was thinking of how to play a V- IV- I progression in A followed by the IV chord of D. Why do you think people think U2 copied off the chorus riff. Because it can be easily immiated in standard....

[m^a(t)h]

your intro tab is wrong anyway....

[m^a(t)h]

sgfh

[m^a(t)h]

and im thinking about recording it. The intros tricky in standard but can be done if I practice, im not going to bother with the solo licks if I record, just the meat of the song...

[huoxito]

interesting topic and i do agree with who create it.
though i don't think all the new songs are simple power-chords.... but the fact is that they don't seem to willing to explore the weird sound of a guitar in aternative tuning that they used to.

i liked them better when they explore the advantages of a guitar in aternative tuning...

[kingcoffee]

I guess the alternate tuning thing has become kind of gimmicky, but most bands have gimmicks now, most of them very un-innovative and boring; they all sound alike. At least SY has something to seperate themselves from the rest of the pack. Especially since a lot of "indie" bands have become increasingly popular. Sonic Youth still makes challenging and interesting music, and honestly, I don't care how they go about doing it. As long as it gets done, I'm happy.

[next step]

Originally Posted by m^a(t)h

It seems like sonic youths unusual tunings are now only a gimmick to keep them from being considered just "rock". For the most part their songs are very tonal and harmonic. The unususal tunings serve little purpose nowadays. Im saying this because I hate when people talk to me about them and how they heard there tunings are so weird. I mean songs like "shadow of a doubt", "halloween", and "brave men run" take full advantage of the open tunings (along with many other of their earlier works). But alot of their newer stuff is just power chords unecessarily spaced across octaves.

Im going to get bashed for saying that....

I remember an interview to Lee and he said standard tuning has a standard sound.
Nothing more true!

[Glice]

Originally Posted by next step

I remember an interview to Lee and he said standard tuning has a standard sound.
Nothing more true!

Derek Bailey. Derek Bailey. Derek Bailey.

Need I go on?

[Paperhouse]

yes, you need. as brilliant as bailey was, his style of playing wouldn't really be suitable for playing what are still essentially rock songs. he was all about timbre and such rather than interjecting new harmonic and tonal possibilities into rock music.

[m^a(t)h]

i hate when people criticize standard tuning. There are actually alot of stuff you can do with drones in standard just because of the way it is set up. Im not saying standard is superior, my guitar is usually in a sonic youth tuning or one of my own, but to just say standard is standard is a very lame excuse. And plus, nothing sounds better then some old fashioned country jams in standard tuning...

[lunberg]

I think if people didn't misuse words we wouldn't have this lame debate :
- standard tuning has NOTHING to do with whether something is tonal or not : just because u use non standard tuning doesnt mean you make atonal music

- that said, SONIC YOUTH has never been atonal. Yes of course, there's a non tonal part in almost every song but every song they did as SY(except those found in WM or NYCGF ) is TONAL : meaning it has a tonality.
DDN is definitely TONAL (or MODAL depending on the song ). However the released SYR is rarely tonal.
The reason why Sonic Youth (and they're far from being the only ones) uses alternate tunings is because :
- Some chords are easier to play in a certain tuning
- The harmonics when sounding the guitar aren't the same.

This may seem obnoxious but you can't let people bullshit you with this tonal - non tonal stuff.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by lunberg

This may seem obnoxious but you can't let people bullshit you with this tonal - non tonal stuff.

perhaps it's not an argument about tonality/atonality, but an argument over the actual tone or timbre of the notes at certain places on the instrument.

[m^a(t)h]

Originally Posted by lunberg

I think if people didn't misuse words we wouldn't have this lame debate :
- standard tuning has NOTHING to do with whether something is tonal or not : just because u use non standard tuning doesnt mean you make atonal music

- that said, SONIC YOUTH has never been atonal. Yes of course, there's a non tonal part in almost every song but every song they did as SY(except those found in WM or NYCGF ) is TONAL : meaning it has a tonality.
DDN is definitely TONAL (or MODAL depending on the song ). However the released SYR is rarely tonal.
The reason why Sonic Youth (and they're far from being the only ones) uses alternate tunings is because :
- Some chords are easier to play in a certain tuning
- The harmonics when sounding the guitar aren't the same.

This may seem obnoxious but you can't let people bullshit you with this tonal - non tonal stuff.

lunberg no, your wrong. When the tones of a chord are in close-voicings, or non-standard scale tones they are considered atonal. Every song on Confusion is Sex LP has atonal guitar, if you want you can try and prove me wrong by mentioning a song or part of a song that has a chord or lick that has tones that can be found in a standard western scale during 1981 to 1983....


I do agree with your first sediment though. The tuning does not tell wheiter the song is tonal or not, for instance the SY EP has most songs in standard, and yet they are atonal...

[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by lunberg

I think if people didn't misuse words we wouldn't have this lame debate :
- standard tuning has NOTHING to do with whether something is tonal or not : just because u use non standard tuning doesnt mean you make atonal music

- that said, SONIC YOUTH has never been atonal. Yes of course, there's a non tonal part in almost every song but every song they did as SY(except those found in WM or NYCGF ) is TONAL : meaning it has a tonality.
DDN is definitely TONAL (or MODAL depending on the song ). However the released SYR is rarely tonal.
The reason why Sonic Youth (and they're far from being the only ones) uses alternate tunings is because :
- Some chords are easier to play in a certain tuning
- The harmonics when sounding the guitar aren't the same.

This may seem obnoxious but you can't let people bullshit you with this tonal - non tonal stuff.

Lundberg fucked her.

[Massenvernichtungswaffen]

Holy Hell? This thread sure turned into an argument pretty quickly. lol. Fucking guitarists. (being one, I understand.) Straight Burnt.

[next step]

Originally Posted by Glice

Derek Bailey. Derek Bailey. Derek Bailey.

Need I go on?

It was an interview to Derek Bailey, not Lee? I thought to remember well..........

[ozZuB-ginK]

Originally Posted by top 40 squeeze

Nonstandard tunings is how they learned how to play their instruments, and how they've been writing songs for 25 years. Its what they are used to, and the exact opposite of a gimmick, because it is now fully integrated into their style. Its how they know how to play the guitar.

good answer