[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by knox

well, i would if i had to choose, dont know about her.

Robert, Brad, George and Johnny would be gutted.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Satan

1. wit escapes me

Fixed.

[Satan]

Originally Posted by Glice

Fixed.

i can't argue with this. weed has made me pretty much completely fucking retarded.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

it cracks me up how you inevitably make the puppies follow you

men are dogs. dogs are filthy, stupid creatures.

[davenotdead]

following what?

if typing a few words possibly gets me nudes, then why not?

[Conrad]

Satan, I'm glad to hear that you didn't become a stripper.

[Satan]

i still don't see anything wrong with it, it's just a job, but it's hell on your body, the bruises you get on your thighs from the pole are insane, plus the constant plucking/waxing/shaving/putting on & taking off makeup/wearing 6-7" shoes and being on your feet for hours/weaves/etc

[Conrad]

I think it's degrading, but suit yourself.

[Satan]

i don't think it's degrading. who's made to look stupid? the woman has the power over an audience full of stupid slobbering men in that situation. if you're comfortable enough with your body to put yourself out there i think it's great and can be very liberating. everyone likes to feel sexy and attractive. that's not why i was considering it. i knew i could make a lot of money and i love having that kind of power over other people.

what i do have something of a problem with are the ridiculous, unrealistic physical standards that have become the norm in the sex industry, plastic surgery has become almost a prerequisite. if you want to do it for yourself, great, fine, whatever, but a ton of girls go out and buy big plastic tits just to further their careers in the industry because unfortunately that's what sells.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by Conrad

I think it's degrading, but suit yourself.

This poem by Margaret Atwood is really good about the whole subject. I came across it on a Flickr contacts page, and in looking at most of her photos, it's pretty obvious she's a dancer.

Helen of Troy Does Countertop Dancing

The world is full of women
who'd tell me I should be ashamed of myself
if they had the chance. Quit dancing.
Get some self-respect
and a day job.
Right. And minimum wage,
and varicose veins, just standing
in one place for eight hours
behind a glass counter
bundled up to the neck, instead of
naked as a meat sandwich.
Selling gloves, or something.
Instead of what I do sell.
You have to have talent
to peddle a thing so nebulous
and without material form.
Exploited, they'd say. Yes, any way
you cut it, but I've a choice
of how, and I'll take the money.

I do give value.
Like preachers, I sell vision,
like perfume ads, desire
or its facsimile. Like jokes
or war, it's all in the timing.
I sell men back their worse suspicions:
that everything's for sale,
and piecemeal. They gaze at me and see
a chain-saw murder just before it happens,
when thigh, ass, inkblot, crevice, tit, and nipple
are still connected.
Such hatred leaps in them,
my beery worshippers! That, or a bleary
hopeless love. Seeing the rows of heads
and upturned eyes, imploring
but ready to snap at my ankles,
I understand floods and earthquakes, and the urge
to step on ants. I keep the beat,
and dance for them because
they can't. The music smells like foxes,
crisp as heated metal
searing the nostrils
or humid as August, hazy and languorous
as a looted city the day after,
when all the rape's been done
already, and the killing,
and the survivors wander around
looking for garbage
to eat, and there's only a bleak exhaustion.
Speaking of which, it's the smiling
tires me out the most.
This, and the pretence
that I can't hear them.
And I can't, because I'm after all
a foreigner to them.
The speech here is all warty gutturals,
obvious as a slab of ham,
but I come from the province of the gods
where meanings are lilting and oblique.
I don't let on to everyone,
but lean close, and I'll whisper:
My mother was raped by a holy swan.
You believe that? You can take me out to dinner.
That's what we tell all the husbands.
There sure are a lot of dangerous birds around.

Not that anyone here
but you would understand.
The rest of them would like to watch me
and feel nothing. Reduce me to components
as in a clock factory or abattoir.
Crush out the mystery.
Wall me up alive
in my own body.
They'd like to see through me,
but nothing is more opaque
than absolute transparency.
Look--my feet don't hit the marble!
Like breath or a balloon, I'm rising,
I hover six inches in the air
in my blazing swan-egg of light.
You think I'm not a goddess?
Try me.
This is a torch song.
Touch me and you'll burn.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by Satan

what i do have something of a problem with are the ridiculous, unrealistic physical standards that have become the norm in the sex industry, plastic surgery has become almost a prerequisite. if you want to do it for yourself, great, fine, whatever, but a ton of girls go out and buy big plastic tits just to further their careers in the industry because unfortunately that's what sells.

that would be a big difference between Portland and NYC. real breasts actually sell pretty well here.

[Satan]

i just mean the sex industry in general, there are a fair amount of places here where you can go and see some real titties but i'm speaking of what appeals to the masses here. mind-numbingly generic.

oh yeah, you guys do know there are male strippers, right? a lot of them. do you ever hear anyone say that they're degrading themselves? no.
hmmmm.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by Satan

i don't think it's degrading. who's made to look stupid? the woman has the power over an audience full of stupid slobbering men in that situation.

Ah, yes, the Lydia Lunch position of third wave feminism.

I think it's a stupid position, honestly, but I'm typically not as sexually-transfixed as some.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by Satan

oh yeah, you guys do know there are male strippers, right? a lot of them. do you ever hear anyone say that they're degrading themselves? no.
hmmmm.

I had the opportunity to watch a bachlorette party at the bar I used to dj at in Olympia. that guy was degrading himself beyond belief, and walked out with some pretty high bank for doing it.

I couldn't do what he was doing, but I'd be a female stripper in a second if I was a girl. I feel more envy than lust when I watch them. If they're good.

[wellcharge]

Originally Posted by Satan

oh yeah, you guys do know there are male strippers, right? a lot of them. do you ever hear anyone say that they're degrading themselves? no.
hmmmm.

yeah sorry but if one my homies was a stripper i guaranteed you they would get made of fun of sooo much

[Satan]

i am not a feminist.

lydia lunch is a stupid cunt but that's the one thing she was ever right about. why is it degrading? if you feel you have something to offer the world shouldn't you share it if you so desire?

[Conrad]

I guess that is something we'll have to disagree on.

Money isn't everything, and it's definitely not worth stripping for in my opinion. I don't think people who dance are disgusting low-lifes with no self respect, I'd just never do it myself and I wish other women didn't have to do either. I wish it wasn't so common.

Regarding those lyrics or whatever, most retail is almost as degrading as stripping.

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by Satan

oh yeah, you guys do know there are male strippers, right? a lot of them. do you ever hear anyone say that they're degrading themselves? no.
hmmmm.

Yeah, and there are guys who turn tricks too.

I have the same opinion on the subject for both men and women.

[Satan]

Originally Posted by wellcharge

yeah sorry but if one my homies was a stripper i guaranteed you they would get made of fun of sooo much

male strippers don't have the looming threat of rape or assault leaving work, they don't get called sluts and whores. they are ridiculous and retarded and should be made fun of, but the shit they take is not remotely comparable to the shit that females in the sex industry have taken for decades.

prostitution is the world's oldest profession why?

because sex sells.


class dismissed.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by Conrad

most retail is almost as degrading as stripping.

a lot of strippers have made the decision it's more degrading. a friend of mine who went and worked at a peep show told me how she came to the decision that she was wearing short skirts in the cafes she worked in order to get better tips and finally just said "fuck it".

[akprodr]

There is an extremely excellent book on being a stripper: "Strip City" by Lily Burana. Its even possible I'm in it in as part of a composite character...

Pathetic or not, one of the things I miss most about Anchorage, AK is the Great Alaskan Bush Company. Simply the best strip club I've ever been to. While most of 'em just display body parts, many of them actually do dance. Onyx can do amazing things with her body--feet behind her head doing pushups, put herself in a suitcase... Most of the girls there are very nice and very intelligent--yeah you can make money by hustling lap dance after dance but I know I like it when a girl pays attention to me. In a way, they are therapists to social misfits like me.

I find fake boobs for strippers (and porn stars) to be so ironic. Yeah, they look good--when you have clothes on. Take 'em off and yuck! Visually, I much prefer small ones anyway.

I can still remember one song by Onyx--the Rolling Stones' "Miss You" remixed by JayZ(?--from some movie soundtrack?). Lights up real high. She was bounding around the stage in a frenzy. I had plenty of THC and alcohol on board. Magical.

Strip clubs around here suck moose balls.

Oh yeah, I have utmost respect for strippers. I know I couldn't do that job--even if I had the body. Indeed, a stripper friend said she felt degraded--when she was applying for some welfare like product when she was trying to get out of stripping.