[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by knox

well i asked a priest once... no good.

but apparently he said jesus was conceived without sex (penetration) it had nothing to do with not popping on the way out.

poor woman, maybe she got to experience it later?

That is true, Jesus very much "popped" it on the way out, after all even in the Gospel it references to the Hebraic cleansing ritual and circumcision of Jesus "for every male that opens the matrix" (matrix=greek for cervix)

[pbradley]

Catholic atheist, so maybe she's the proverbial mother of all?

Living in Southern California, I did notice the cultural differences between the more Anglo Catholicism and the Mexican Catholicism. In fact, my Mexican friend left Catholicism to a non-denominational church because he found the ritualism of his family's Catholicism to be too much and too removed from his religious experience. This was contrary to my Catholicism. There were sacraments and liturgy, of course, but they were more subdued than the Mexican tradition. In fact, for my own part, I preferred more conservative aspects of Catholicism like masses in Latin, and the turn in homilies from deeper theological themes to contemporary politics must have played a role in my apostasy.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Catholic atheist, so maybe she's the proverbial mother of all?

Living in Southern California, I did notice the cultural differences between the more Anglo Catholicism and the Mexican Catholicism. In fact, my Mexican friend left Catholicism to a non-denominational church because he found the ritualism of his family's Catholicism to be too much and too removed from his religious experience. This was contrary to my Catholicism. There were sacraments and liturgy, of course, but they were more subdued than the Mexican tradition. In fact, for my own part, I preferred more conservative aspects of Catholicism like masses in Latin and the turn in homilies from deeper theological themes to contemporary politics must have played a role in my apostasy.

I feel the same way, for me the ritualism and traditions accentuate my religious experience, but many folks feel stifled. Other Mexicans and Chicanos see the Virgin as the epitome of their cultural and nationalistic/ethnic/ancestral identity. The Virgin IS Mexico for many folks..

on another tip..

I was also thinking..

so the Virgin could also represent for men the "one that got away" or at least "the dream girl" that they are always chasing after in the form of a million other women. For women, the virgin could also come to be the idealized woman, the supermodel on the cover the magazine, who is both idolized and bitterly resented in the same breathe (in other words "that bitch")

[jon boy]

nothing to me.

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

A slut.

[SONIC GAIL]

no dr that was the other mary

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

That is true, Jesus very much "popped" it on the way out, after all even in the Gospel it references to the Hebraic cleansing ritual and circumcision of Jesus "for every male that opens the matrix" (matrix=greek for cervix)

I've never heard that, which gospel is that?

[ann ashtray]

Sometimes people see the face of the virgin mary in their toast.

One time I got a secret message in my alphabet cereal....it said "oooooooooooooooo", and then I realized I was eating cherios.

haha

[GeneticKiss]

...

I was going to say that the whole "virgin" thing with Mary is just the church's way of keeping their "savior" clean of the "sin" of Joseph having fucked her, but others have said basically that, far more eloquently. But I can tell you that last Christmas, my family was having a religious discussion and my Catholic schoolteacher aunt mentioned something about her faith believing that Jesus and Mary were the reincarnation of Adam and Eve...

Now hold on here. Isn't reincarnation supposedly a lie made up by heathens? So their savior and his mom are the reincarnation of the mother and father of humanity, but the rest of us pureblooded (purity meaning filth) sinners from cradle to grave have only one shot at living a good life? Pure hypocrisy.

Interestly enough, Johnny Cash's "God's Gonna Cut You Down" is playing on the stereo next to me...

[ann ashtray]

She's just a virgin. There is no rag sopped in blood...

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

I've never heard that, which gospel is that?

Luke 2

22And when the days of their purification were fulfilled, according to the law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem, to present to the Lord,
23as it hath been written in the Law of the Lord, -- `Every male opening a womb (lit. matrix) shall be called holy to the Lord,'
24and to give a sacrifice, according to that said in the Law of the Lord, `A pair of turtle-doves, or two young pigeons.'

It is therefore fundamental Hebraic theology (which is indeed contrary to the Roman doctrines which are highly disputed across Christendom) that Jesus Christ both be born of a Virgin Birth (Ezekiel's Door in the East which no man goes into but the Lord and only He comes out of it) but to be perfectly legal according to Moses' tradition, He must have also have opened the matrix so that the Law could be fulfilled through the appropriate Temple rituals. Interestingly enough, I realized last night that Solomon's Temple in the literature and context of the Bible is in fact a symbol of the Virgin Mary, not the other way around, which is of course why the Temple in Jerusalem stood and was rebuilt three times and yet when it was knocked down after the coming of the Virgin (who is the True Temple, the True Dwelling place of God) they left the rubble on the ground.

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

...

I was going to say that the whole "virgin" thing with Mary is just the church's way of keeping their "savior" clean of the "sin" of Joseph having fucked her, but others have said basically that, far more eloquently. But I can tell you that last Christmas, my family was having a religious discussion and my Catholic schoolteacher aunt mentioned something about her faith believing that Jesus and Mary were the reincarnation of Adam and Eve...

Now hold on here. Isn't reincarnation supposedly a lie made up by heathens? So their savior and his mom are the reincarnation of the mother and father of humanity, but the rest of us pureblooded (purity meaning filth) sinners from cradle to grave have only one shot at living a good life? Pure hypocrisy.

Interestly enough, Johnny Cash's "God's Gonna Cut You Down" is playing on the stereo next to me...

That's not true, the Bible (and many other writings and stories in the Church canon of Holy Tradition) speaks specifically of Reincarnation with the concept of John the Baptist and Elijah and Elisha, as well as several others in the 'apocryphal' traditions..

It seemed to me the entire concept of the Virgin birth is not necessarily to emphasize purity of Jesus, but rather the mysterious, supernatural and fully divine aspect of Jesus. If the story is indeed true, of a Virgin giving birth, there must be something seriously different about that woman and especially that Child. The very concept draws the attention of any who would have heard of it, it has just gotten so common place in our civilization that we are used to it, and it has lost its awe inspiring appeal, but to those not familiar with the tradition, the idea of a Virgin birth is miraculous and divine, not a kind of legal/puritanical baggage.

Of course, the very purpose of this thread is not to discuss strictly what I or the Church think or teach about the Virgin, but rather what Y'ALL do, so I very much enjoy the discussion.. Many folks have indeed seen the Virgin birth as means of purifying the savior from 'sin' and elevating him as a symbol of purity, though truthfully it is not very accurate, after all, I don't believe there is anyone hornier or more infatuated with lust than pubescent 13 year olds and I am sure the Holy Virgin Mary was not necessarily an exception, so for folks to believe in the purity from sin of Mary or Jesus simply because of a virgin birth, well that is not quite realistic is it?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

from the Hymnology towards Mary (reflecting many literary, visual and musical traditions regarding Mary) She becomes all the Old Testament symbols, or rather all the Old Testament imagery was symbolism for the coming of an actual woman, the Virgin

Thou art the young
Shoot from the root
of DAVID.

Thou art the Second
Heaven over the
earth, O spotless
God-bearer. From
thee hath risen upon
us the Sun of
righteousness, and
thou didst bring Him
forth
Thou art the second
chamber, in that thou
wast called "Holiest of
Holies",
Thou art the golden
candlestick and dost hold
the brilliant Light at all
times,

Thou art the censer of
gold because thou didst
carry the coals of the
blessed fire which He
took from the
sanctuary
Thou art] the garden of
delight, the garden of
joy, which is planted with
the trees of LEBANON,
and was prepared for the saints before the world
was created.

Thou art like unto the rod
of AARON, which, without
being planted in the
ground and without
watering, burst into
blossom.

Thou art the Bush which
MOSES saw blazing with
fire, and the wood thereof
was not consumed

Thou art that Field wherein
no seed was sown, and yet
there went forth from thee
the Fruit of Life. Thou art
that Treasure-house which
JOSEPH (Old Testament) bought, and he
found therein a Pearl, a
precious gem,

It was He Who came down
to thee, O rational
mountain of Sinai
She is
JERUSALEM, the city of
the Prophets, and she is
the habitation of the joy
of all the saints

EZEKIEL the Prophet
testified concerning her
and said, "I see a sealed
door in the East, sealed
with a great and
wonderful seal, and no
one save the God of the
mighty ones hath gone
in through it. He went
in and He came out"

[SONIC GAIL]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SuchFriendsAreDangerous again

[atsonicpark]

 

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Sometimes people see the face of the virgin mary in their toast.

One time I got a secret message in my alphabet cereal....it said "oooooooooooooooo", and then I realized I was eating cherios.

haha

you stole that joke from Family Guy (and they probably stole it from somewhere else)

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

One time I got a secret message in my alphabet cereal....it said "oooooooooooooooo", and then I realized I was eating cherios.

haha

Welcome back, incendiary wit!

[!@#$%!]

if the question was who is the virgin mary, i'd say it's a mythological figure of the christian religion.

however, since the question is who is she TO ME, the answer is "a pack of fucking lies"

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

you stole that joke from Family Guy (and they probably stole it from somewhere else)

Yes, yes i did....too good not to use again, though.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

if the question was who is the virgin mary, i'd say it's a mythological figure of the christian religion.

however, since the question is who is she TO ME, the answer is "a pack of fucking lies"

elaborate please. what part were the lies?

after all, whether or not the Virgin Mary is a true story is practically irrelevant to the cultural/historical/personal significance she may take on as an ever-constant aspect and part of our complicated, multi-layered existences..

for example she used to be just a pack of lies and a frightening crock of shit for me too, but after time, like most women, grew on me quite subtly at first..

[dale_gribble]

i'd say she was a hot jewish ho who got knocked up by a roman soldier or an alien.