[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

the 12-18 hours comments are about acid.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Severian.. there are ELEVEN psychoactive chemicals that occur only in cannabis, and about 80 chemicals that only occur in cannabis. the ratio and differing levels of these cannabinoids determines the psychoactive effect. the differing strains and also differing curing methods cause different "highs".. its not merely "marketing" is neurochemistry.

THC is the most psychoactive but the other ten chemicals play their roles. the "energetic" strains have less of the "sleepy" chemicals. some of these more so impact pain receptors, CBD oils and tinctures used as legit medicine aim for extracts of these different cannabinoids for different uses

Ok, I believe you. I did not actually know about these other psychoactives. My bad. Grad school dropout remember? No shame.

Anyway, still seems that smoking weed seems to have the same effect on me no matter what.

[Severian]

*But I haven't really done much smoking in the past ten years. Maybe a handful of times at this point. So I've missed out on a lot.

One of my friends swears by eating about ¼ gram of mushrooms every single day (every. single. day.) to combat anxiety. Keeps trying to get me to try it as a "healthier" alternative to benzodiazepines. However, knowing how mushrooms affect ones seratonin and dopamine regulations in the brain, I'm waiting this out to see if this person doesn't have an eventual meltdown from self-prescribing eyeballed doses. She's kind of crazy to start with, so I may have to be patient, but I'm pretty sure there's going to be a backfire. These things are worth looking into in a lab setting, but it's lunacy to fuck around with mushrooms, LCD, mdma, or anything like that in your day to day life. Shit could get very real very quickly, and it might manifest in a strange way... uncontrollable crying in front of co-workers for example. Or an ill-placed tracer while driving. Yikes. Count me out.

Weird world.

[greenlight]

Originally Posted by Severian

Anyway, still seems that smoking weed seems to have the same effect on me no matter what.

yeah, know what you mean.

mushrooms are natural. they are good. not for everyday use though. mushrooms should be taken once in a while (i haven't have them in ages) as a part of spiritual cleansing in a proper setting and with some pro guidance i think (maybe mandatory once in a lifetime, haha). otherwise healthy person doesn't need them except "spiritual experience". I red few studies they are helpfull to treat all sorts of psychotic disorders or heavy depressions and stuff like that, but then that needs to be done in professional manner.

Terence McKenna and Stanislav Grof two pro guys in this field.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Ok, I believe you. I did not actually know about these other psychoactives. My bad. Grad school dropout remember? No shame.

Anyway, still seems that smoking weed seems to have the same effect on me no matter what.

no worries that is why i explained for you

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

*But I haven't really done much smoking in the past ten years. Maybe a handful of times at this point. So I've missed out on a lot.

One of my friends swears by eating about ¼ gram of mushrooms every single day (every. single. day.) to combat anxiety. Keeps trying to get me to try it as a "healthier" alternative to benzodiazepines. However, knowing how mushrooms affect ones seratonin and dopamine regulations in the brain, I'm waiting this out to see if this person doesn't have an eventual meltdown from self-prescribing eyeballed doses. She's kind of crazy to start with, so I may have to be patient, but I'm pretty sure there's going to be a backfire. These things are worth looking into in a lab setting, but it's lunacy to fuck around with mushrooms, LCD, mdma, or anything like that in your day to day life. Shit could get very real very quickly, and it might manifest in a strange way... uncontrollable crying in front of co-workers for example. Or an ill-placed tracer while driving. Yikes. Count me out.

Weird world.

i don't necessarily see the harm. its a very small dose, indeed a 1/4 gram is almost not enough to be psychoactive though will definitely have an effect on neurochemistry. i find this an interesting idea and if she feels it helps i support it. anything but pharmaceuticals that just fuck up brain chemistry.

i would believe CBD therapy might be more effective for anxiety BUT some people say cannabis actually aggravates their anxiety.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

by the way, for the entire year of 2003 i probably at mushrooms five days out of every seven with several periods of every day for weeks, and im not talking about some almost inactive 1/4 gram, im talking about getting baked on 1/4 OUNCE..

mushrooms aren't like other psychedelics, they are mild, they don't necessarily cause any long term effects.. sure in the short term they can trip people the fuck out, but long term they are safe. there have been medical grade studies in Europe. people were fine
no meltdowns.. no ill effects.. no damage to my brain functions.. if anything, that was a very positive year

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by greenlight

yeah, know what you mean.

mushrooms are natural. they are good. not for everyday use though. mushrooms should be taken once in a while (i haven't have them in ages) as a part of spiritual cleansing in a proper setting and with some pro guidance i think (maybe mandatory once in a lifetime, haha). otherwise healthy person doesn't need them except "spiritual experience". I red few studies they are helpfull to treat all sorts of psychotic disorders or heavy depressions and stuff like that, but then that needs to be done in professional manner.

Terence McKenna and Stanislav Grof two pro guys in this field.

in europe studies are indeed showing mushroom therapy is effective for depression and psychotic disorders.. however for these they are of course balanced with intensive psychological therapy similar to the MDMA therapy in Switzerland

[greenlight]

"Ignoring the fact that the Declaration of Independence was drafted on hemp paper and that the cannabis plant can be used for a number of applications – not limited to industrial, clothes, and medicine – it is still a herb that, more often than not, is denounced by mainstream media."

"Could this possibly be a result of the alcohol industry bribing officials to discredit and trash the herb? According to recently exposed information by WikiLeaks, that’s exactly the case."

"Sadly, the average individual in America has not been informed of these facts and still believes that marijuana is a “gateway” drug to harder substances down the road. This is mainly because the U.S. government has blatantly lied about cannabis – and its multitude of uses – for decades."

nice quotes from article - WikiLeaks: Alcohol Industry Bribed Congress To Denounce Cannabis http://www.naturalblaze.com/2016/08/...-cannabis.html

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

by the way, for the entire year of 2003 i probably at mushrooms five days out of every seven with several periods of every day for weeks, and im not talking about some almost inactive 1/4 gram, im talking about getting baked on 1/4 OUNCE..

mushrooms aren't like other psychedelics, they are mild, they don't necessarily cause any long term effects.. sure in the short term they can trip people the fuck out, but long term they are safe. there have been medical grade studies in Europe. people were fine
no meltdowns.. no ill effects.. no damage to my brain functions.. if anything, that was a very positive year

Hey, I did that too. Same year, no less. Well, mostly the same year. My mushroom fuckery started sooner than 2003, but that year I spent at least ½ of my days tripping to some degree.

My concern is that that "come down" effect would be exponential rather than incremental, leading to an eventual full blown seratonin depletion even if someone were only taking a negligible ¼ gram a day. I'm not saying that would definitely happen, but it's possible enough to make someone like me, with ongoing anxiety and depression issues, wary.

And mushrooms are only mild in small doses. As you know (don't tell me you don't), once you get up to the neighborhood of 5 or more grams, you're very likely to have a mindfuck blowout that's just as intense as any effect LSD may produce. Not that I'be ever had any mushroom experience that can compare with the times I really overloaded on acid.

I don't necessarily agree that mushrooms are harmless. Depends on what you consider harmful. They are essentially poison. They may not have the scary long term effects that have been reported with LSD, but they don't do any favors for your liver or your digestion, and like all dopamine/seratonin floodgate openers, they can cause a rebounding effect manifesting in MDD symptoms. I've seen some very happy go lucky mitherfuckers get extremely depressed in the wee hours after a night of hard tripping. It's nothing your brain doesn't correct on its own pretty quickly, but it certainly qualifies as a down side.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Hey, I did that too. Same year, no less. Well, mostly the same year. My mushroom fuckery started sooner than 2003, but that year I spent at least ½ of my days tripping to some degree.

My concern is that that "come down" effect would be exponential rather than incremental, leading to an eventual full blown seratonin depletion even if someone were only taking a negligible ¼ gram a day.

what come down effect??

I'm not saying that would definitely happen, but it's possible enough to make someone like me, with ongoing anxiety and depression issues, wary.

and maybe you're just letting your anxiety get to you? your friend is doing it because she feels it is balancing her neurochemistry and she might be absolutely right. in that regard you might come out with less anxiety or depression from a neurochemical perspective.

And mushrooms are only mild in small doses. As you know (don't tell me you don't), once you get up to the neighborhood of 5 or more grams,

and small doses is precisely what we have been discussing que no?

you're very likely to have a mindfuck blowout that's just as intense as any effect LSD may produce.

sure but it metabolizes much more quickly and doesn't linger in the system like LSD or others. shit i had a very frightening two week trip from datura. LSD overdose can last weeks. mushrooms? a day, tops, no matter what the dose, it will metabolize out.

Not that I'be ever had any mushroom experience that can compare with the times I really overloaded on acid.

me neither but im not gonna lie i seen some people go off on the deep end for a few hours from eating too much. however even then, i don't think their trip was "bad" like a bad acid trip so much as powerful and not what they were prepared or ready for. vision quest status.

I don't necessarily agree that mushrooms are harmless. Depends on what you consider harmful.

there have literally been studies, on indians who ate them daily for a year or more, and long term studies on indians who had been eating them for years, zero structural brain damage as happens with say meth or even alcohol. again, harmless.

They are essentially poison.

come on bro you are smarter than that. this is a high school myth. psilocybin is NOT a poison and there are no poisons found in psilocybin mushrooms. psychoactive yes. toxic no. the LD50 numbers are practically impossible to ingest.

They may not have the scary long term effects that have been reported with LSD, but they don't do any favors for your liver or your digestion, and like all dopamine/seratonin floodgate openers, they can cause a rebounding effect manifesting in MDD symptoms.

nope, again, there have been scientific studies. remember psilocybin was the first studied hallucinogen. indeed many studies as well as anecdotal reports show that most people have the opposite effect, they come out of it feeling clear headed and positive, optimistic about their lives and place in the world.

I've seen some very happy go lucky mitherfuckers get extremely depressed in the wee hours after a night of hard tripping.

maybe they weren't happy with or ready for their visions? the thing about mushrooms is they are NOT for fun, its not a recreational experience. folks who abuse it as such will get burned. if ones are not ready to explore themselves at the deepest existential level then they should NOT eat mushrooms. mushrooms are SPIRITUAL.

its not a party drug. folks should proceed with caution, the subconscious mind when revealed can have serious psychological impact.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

http://www.livescience.com/48704-odd...mushrooms.html

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

not only does psilocybin NOT cause beain damage it might even REPAIR it!

http://reset.me/study/study-psilocyb...w-brain-cells/

[pepper_green]

here in south Georgia shrooms are the easiest cheapest way to alter the mind. cheap as in free. and easy as in a stones throw from my door. that's if it's summer.

it's hot, very humid and rainy. peaches and silly simon!!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I should reiterate my initial point, that psilocybin mushrooms are not poisonous or toxic physically, but psychologically and emotionally if ones are not fully prepared to embrace whereever their Vision takes them then there might be some lingering negative effects on one's thinking, though most people report a positive experience all around.

In other words, folks shouldn't eat them like smoking a joint or drinking a beer, they should treat it like the Indians do, something altogether SACRED like the Holy Communion.

[pepper_green]

it's definitely not kids stuff that's for sure. then again micro dosing everyday doesn't seem to be a bad ideal. that's if you don't have a job that is and a very large amount that doesn't ruin. a little sprinkle here. some trails there.

here we find liberty caps. bruise purple. only ones I know of. they stand out, easy to spot and are very common.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

it's definitely not kids stuff that's for sure. then again micro dosing everyday doesn't seem to be a bad ideal.

It actually doesn't, I am very interested to tell the truth, I am surprised I never thought of it before!

that's if you don't have a job that is and a very large amount that doesn't ruin. a little sprinkle here. some trails there.

No that is why its micro-dosing.. will be little no know psychoactive effect but all the same neurochemical positives..

[Severian]

Never said it caused brain damage.

What come down effect? It's called having your seratonin burned through like kindling for several hours. As the drug wears off, your brain tries to return to normal, but, to put it plainly, it physically can't. You're below your baseline seratonin levels.

Of course a quick Google search of blue light and Erowid shows me that some people feel fine... Others feel sad. I'm sure it depends on your baseline levels. People with a tendency to feel depressed are probably more likely to feel depressed during a comedown. People with healthier levels probably don't notice it as much. Maybe they call it an "afterglow" ... But it's a melancholy affair for me, and many people I know, and many people whose accounts I just read on the world wide webarino.

Mushrooms work in a very similar way to MDMA and LSD. The high contains the same basic properties in all cases. Seratonin and dopamine rush, followed by a temporary seratonin and dopamine deficiency. Seratonin and norepinephrine and dopamine are all essential to mood regulation. Maybe it's not universal, but from a psychopharmacological standpoint, there's a period of "playing catch up" that follows. This is basically a mini depressive state, whether you happen to knowingly experience it or not. Maybe you're just a super happy dude.

I'm not trying to be a dick here. Your experiences are your experiences. Not trying to argue.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Never said it caused brain damage.

What come down effect? It's called having your seratonin burned through like kindling for several hours. As the drug wears off, your brain tries to return to normal, but, to put it plainly, it physically can't. You're below your baseline seratonin levels.

While you're talking science fine I'm not sure the actual experience of mushrooms is the same as you're suggesting. Sure, LSD has this effect, but I have honestly never seen anyone have a negative experience "coming down" from consuming psilocybin. I think you have the right idea, but I'm not sure the math totally adds up here.

Of course a quick Google search of blue light and Erowid shows me that some people feel fine... Others feel sad. I'm sure it depends on your baseline levels.

Like i was saying...

People with a tendency to feel depressed are probably more likely to feel depressed during a comedown.

Did you read the link I PM'd you? Several studies aside from that one strongly suggest the opposite to be true, that ingesting psilocybin can have a POSITIVE impact on neurochemical depression disorders. It can BALANCE the neurochemicals, not put them out of whack which indeed you are right LSD and other stronger hallucinogens can do..

People with healthier levels probably don't notice it as much. Maybe they call it an "afterglow" ... But it's a melancholy affair for me, and many people I know, and many people whose accounts I just read on the world wide webarino.

Like i said above, personally I doubt this has ANYTHING to do with the chemistry of psilocybin itself, rather is a strictly PSYCHOLOGICAL rather than NEUROCHEMICAL experience you are having. Perhaps you are not fully ready for what your Vision showed you, perhaps going through a depressive episode is what the Vision wants to show you. Sometimes we are only able to heal our psychological wounds by unpacking the baggage, so sometimes psilocybin might be helping us towards healing by pushing us through our psychological ups and downs.

Again studies have found that many people, even in a laboratory setting, actually leave a psilocybin experience feeling almost supernaturally HAPPY and POSITIVE. One study found this effect can last for over a YEAR or more!!

Part of what psilocybin does is it increases brain activity, streamlines thinking. If there are parts of one's thought processes that are negative, psilocybin will activate this in hypermode because one's might have used a lot of their psychic energy to BLOCK it rather than HEAL it. This is precisely why in parts of Europe hallucinogens are used in combination with psychotheraphy in order to help people deal with post traumatic stress and anxiety disorders.. It helps them really go deeply through buried psychological drama. It is cleansing. Sometimes cleansing can hurt at first, disenfecting wounds might sting, even if these wounds are strictly psychological.

Like I said, mushrooms are not necessarily for everyone or all the time, nor should they be.

Mushrooms work in a very similar way to MDMA and LSD. The high contains the same basic properties in all cases. Seratonin and dopamine rush, followed by a temporary seratonin and dopamine deficiency.

That is only partially true, did you read the LiveScience link I posted? Psilocybin does A LOT more than this, hence why its experience is so DIFFERENT from other hallucinogens. Indeed MOST people don't even have hallucinations (auditory of visual), instead they have a "body high" and a "mental high" whereas indeed as you mentioned, LSD can be so overpowering because it is essentially a seratonin flood, it is EXTREME dreaming, it is total sensory dysfunction. Very different from psilocybin even if in some ways psilocybin acts similarly.

Maybe it's not universal, but from a psychopharmacological standpoint, there's a period of "playing catch up" that follows. This is basically a mini depressive state, whether you happen to knowingly experience it or not. Maybe you're just a super happy dude.

Again sort of, but psilocybin has a different effect on the brain and body than other hallucinogens. What you are describing is textbook LSD, not so sure its the same with psilocybin. Also kindly remember I have not been speaking at all anecdotally. I am not sharing my own experiences or speaking strictly about myself, I am talking about science and research based stuff. Its beyond me, I wouldn't be so foolish as to speak so boldly about a psychoactive substance based solely on my own experiences as everyone obviously experiences psychoactive substances very very differently.

I'm not trying to be a dick here. Your experiences are your experiences. Not trying to argue.

I don't think you are being a dick at all, and I am glad you shared your experiences and I am enjoying the discussion as its a unique topic that rarely enters the conversation level.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I should reiterate my initial point, that psilocybin mushrooms are not poisonous or toxic physically, but psychologically and emotionally if ones are not fully prepared to embrace whereever their Vision takes them then there might be some lingering negative effects on one's thinking, though most people report a positive experience all around.

In other words, folks shouldn't eat them like smoking a joint or drinking a beer, they should treat it like the Indians do, something altogether SACRED like the Holy Communion.

They really are, though. The high they produce is a symptom of their toxicity. Scientifically speaking, they're toxic.

Black mold makes you hallucinate too. Just because mushrooms don't kill you (in theory) doesn't mean they aren't toxic. A lot of people vomit after ingesting them. Their bodies try to get rid of the substance. That's a sign of toxicity if ever there was one. They're fungus. They are literally a toxic substance with euphoric side-effects.

Here, from one of those "science" websites (shroomery.org)
Psilocybin does not qualify as a highly toxic substance when one uses traditional measures of acute toxicity such as the LD 50 (the dose required to kill 50% of experimental animals, usually rats.) Psilocybin has an LD 50 of 280mg/kg. In comparison, the LD 50’s of LSD, THC (the active compound in marijuana), and mescaline are 30mg/kg, 42mg/kg, and 370 mg/kg. Thus, when death is considered as the toxic endpoint, psilocybin is one of the least toxic of the hallucinogens.

One of the least toxic, sure. But still, totally, undeniably, a toxic substance. No question. That's why they call tests for psilocibe and psylocybin and, y'know, all other drugs in animals toxicology tests. That's why these drugs have an actual code for toxicity. Because they're fucking toxic.