[mangajunky]

Originally Posted by PAULYBEE2656

if you stop u run the risk of the realisation that reggae is pretty boring! ;-)

I don't smoke anymore, but that's no reason that you should stop. There are plenty of succesful people out there that smoke. The only person that can answer this question is you. Is smoking effecting your ability to work, play, or be creative? If it is then consider stopping.

...and I love reggae, high or sober.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I didn't say reject development, I was referring to the problems associated with globalization in the name of development, such as massive debt, arms races/proxy wars, foreign sponsered dictatorships, corporate dumping, toxic pollution in total disregard for people and the environment, self-destructive agricultural policies based upon triangle trade and cash crops [like soy and corn for animal feed or the biofuel crisis in food prices], human traficking etc etc... but that is not the issue nor the point. the point is this, we live in a country where a 15 year old girl can go have a surgical abortion under her own volition, despite the fact that that same girl might need her parents' legal consent for a surgeon to perform life saving surgery, and yet, I, a kind-hearted, socially conscious and sincerely cordial adult can not grow, possess or consume a plant which literally MILLIONS of people us everyday. it is ridiculous. I dont expect you to smoke cuz its cool or something, I just wish that more people would be less accepting of the bullshit laws of this country simply because they do not directly affect them. that is why I brought up the other issues, such as the American revolution [vs the loyalist], abolition [vs the slavocracy], post-civil war reconstruction [vs confederate revival],civil rights movt [vs pro-segregation racist], in all of these times, there were plenty of people who were not affected, and yet it was critical that there be unanamous public support. You dont have to smoke pot my friend, but in order to keep people out of jail and off probation and out of the gutter, we as Americans should all mutually respect the right to grow, possess and consume cannabis.

I'm sorry, I was determined not to weigh into your threads for a while - it's quite clear there's a gaping chasm of different opinions between you and I, to put it mildly. However...

I get quite angry at the trope which seeks to align weed smoking with any liberation narrative. To speak of state improprietry, inconsistency, hypocrisy etcetera is fine and, indeed, an important part of having a political consciousness. To despair of cultural horrors, such as those mentioned in brief above is also fine. It's a conflation of matters to speak of those in the same breath as the personal, incidental choice of smoking weed.

Insofar as I say that, I'll agree there is a good point made about the decision to grow something to get yourself off your gourd. However, to speak of massive, deep-set and vastly complicated problems and somehow invoke an 'injustice' about something so piddlingly unimportant (to the wider world) as how you get off your gourd is ridiculous. It is precisely weed's (allegedly) benign affect which leads it to be very, very low down the pecking order of political issues. I'm not saying it's not political - I'm saying any logical, quasi- or pseudo-logical hierarchy of political issues would stick the decision of an indivual to partake in a harmless (but illegal) activity which alters ones mind to the effect of wanting to listen to shitty Pink Floyd LPs somewhere at about the same level as the sort of paint used in parking spaces. You may invest the argument with all the gravitas you wish, and you may contend that it manifests a wider malaise in 'our' political society - fine. There are much more obvious, much less circuitous arguments with which to hammer that particular nail, and using weed to manifest 'an infringement of civil liberties' always strikes me as perpetuating the 'blinkered, mind-enfeebling' arguments against weed better than it does argue for it.

Assume you're the state. There is an herb, let's call it 'beed' which is suspected to have negative effects on some members of society which your are charged with protecting the health, welfare and safety of. Beed forms a very minor part of a recent history in your country and wider states - lest we forget, in Europe and America 'beed' was transported relatively recently by comparison to the process of sanitising water we Europeans know as 'making booze'. Were I the state, I'd make 'beed' illegal. It may be benign in the majority of people, but like certain e-numbers, the detrimental effects to a minority are enough to warrant outlawing it for all. I'm not saying this is strictly 'logical' in an era of individualism, but the state does not proceed by a strict logic, it proceeds by the edict of protectionism. Beed simply does not offer enough benefits to society, once we factor in the difficulty in controlling its production (booze and fags are fuckers to produce, unlike beed) to merit its inclusion in state-sanctioned 'things'.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

well mr. no-paragraph, go fight your weed wars then. we'll watch you on tv.

i think we'll get to the point where weed is legal in this country, no point in "fucking the laws" and risking prison when i can just wait for public opinion to turn around and join the more progressive states. california will have it, the northwest will have it, then the rednecks will have to join. in the meantime i'll take my vacation in vancouver, thanks.

your "fuck the laws" (you mean the cops) attitude will get you fucked, and unless you have something to gain from it you're just a fool. sorry, but you're no rosa parks.

get your strategy together instead of trying to live by RATM lyrics-- I like RATM but it's a fiction. the only people who have effected social change in our time are those who get organized and use their wits.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to !@#$%! again.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

I'm sorry, I was determined not to weigh into your threads for a while -

blah blah blah

to merit its inclusion in state-sanctioned 'things'.

 

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I just don't see what the big deal is either way, honestly. Pot's a waste of money and a waste of time. On the other hand, it's not that big of a deal. It's certainly safer than anything else, alcohol/pills or otherwise. So, if you do it, cool. If you don't do it, cool. I kind of take that stance with it.. If it's around, that's great. If it's not, that sucks. You know? I don't see how people become "users" or even "non-users". I've never been like "Man, I want to get stoned right now!" At the same time, I haven't been like, "Getting stoned sucks!" You see what I'm saying? No reason to quit, no reason to start.

how is any drug a "waste of money or time?" you do what you want with your time. shopping at a mall is a waste of time and money for me. sitting around a pool getting tan for two hours is A waste of time.
our entire working lives exist so we can do what we want and have money to do it. if one wants to call that a waste of time, then i want to know what is not a waste of time.

[Lurker]

Cannabis Is Boring!!

[Rob Instigator]

for you

[Lurker]

Weird, I can't get all the letters to be capitals

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

for you

Yeah

[Rob Instigator]

I find alcohol consumption, the billions of dollars that go into it, the millions of people obsessed with what they have drunk, when they drabnk it, where they drank it, how much it cost, where it is from, where to get it and all the INANITY that comes once they have drunk whatever it is they are drinking to be the single most ultimate BORE in all of our human existance.

but that's just me.

[Lurker]

I agree with that.

[atsonicpark]

Good points, suchfriends.

Also, Rob, I think alcohol is a waste too. It just makes me feel like shit. It's okay in moderation, but it's something else I don't see the big deal about. "MAN I CAN'T WAIT TO GET FUCKING DRUNK!" Really now? Just go take pills. They actually make you feel good! Like, getting a buzz off of alcohol can be okay every now and then, but I just could never get to the point where it would be an "addiction". Makes absolutely no sense to me.

The worst thing in American though is cigarettes. I smoked for about 2 months on and off many years ago and suddenly quit "cold turkey" and it was no big deal at all. I actually attempted to "get into" cigarettes to see what the big deal was, but it just made me feel barely relaxed. And then I quit and never felt the urge to do it again. They smell gross and they make people look gross. There's absolutely nothing appealing about cigarettes.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

how is any drug a "waste of money or time?" you do what you want with your time. shopping at a mall is a waste of time and money for me. sitting around a pool getting tan for two hours is A waste of time.
our entire working lives exist so we can do what we want and have money to do it. if one wants to call that a waste of time, then i want to know what is not a waste of time.

ha ha ha, very fucking true.

vancouver, man. vancouver.

[atsonicpark]

Ah, regarding that, I'm thinking, you are free to do what you want, but if you were to tell me you spent half of your paycheck on weed I would still consider that a waste of money, no questions asked. Sure, the examples you listed are pretty fucking boring (shopping at the mall) but, man, smoking weed is boring! I take that kind of stance with it as I mentioned in my first post: For all practical purposes (its legality, its cost, its purpose), it does seem like a waste of time. It just doesn't seem like a constructive way to spend your money/time. People can do what they want though. I'm pretty indifferent to it all.

Thing is, I guess I answered the question based more on the people I know. If you can buy weed and smoke it and not become obsessed with it to the point of ridiculousness, cool... I just know so many people who have bought drugs over buying things they actually need -- like, um, food or clothes for their baby. I'm using specific examples of people I know.

I believe people can do what they want. I do question people I know who do drugs all the time and complain about being broke though.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Ah, regarding that, I'm thinking, you are free to do what you want, but if you were to tell me you spent $100 of your paycheck on weed I would still consider that a waste of time. Just doesn't seem like a constructive way to spend your money. People can do what they want though. I'm pretty indifferent to it all. I just know so many people who have bought drugs over buying things they actually need -- like, um, food or clothes for their baby.

what about spending $20 on robitussin?

[atsonicpark]

[note: I edited the post you replied to to kind of explain things a bit more before you replied to it]

$20? Where do you live? Try $6.59 plus tax once every 3 months when I have $8,000 in the bank... or easily $20-$60 a week every week for years and years for weed? (which is probably being generous, I know a guy who spends $100 of his paycheck on weed once a week and then he bitches about not having any money all the time)

I'm not an exception to the rule, and I fault myself with ever doing any kind of drugs.. I don't think they're bad, but afterwards, I do go, "Well, I did just waste my money." It's not something you can take with you. It's not something you can really have and to hold forever. Do you see what I'm saying? I don't consider music to be a waste of my money, for example, because I can listen to it forever. And food or something is essential. But drugs.. there are some trips I've had or some fun times I've had that I will always remember, and I don't consider them a waste at all. But there has been times I've spent $30 on alcohol only to black out from it and I felt like shit in more ways than one the next day. That is what I consider a waste.

People can do what they want with their money. I just try to be think of what's more important with my money: gettin "smoked out!!!" or, y'know, having stuff to show for myself that I can enjoy for a while.

Also, regarding legality of pot, I don't really see a problem with it being legal. It's certainly safer than alcohol or cigarettes. They should just give it the same kind of respect as something like alcohol... don't smoke weed and drive, don't smoke weed in public.. if you're just sitting around your house smoking weed, though, what's the big deal?

[Rob Instigator]

you are right though @sonicpark
there are always the burn outs the "heads" who think weed is the living end and smoke from wake up till they fall asleep. that's not me, nor is it any of my friends. we are all older and wiser by now.

I can;t stand the weed fanatics either.

tabulating.....

I personally spend, me and my girlfriend, maybe$120 on hydroponic weed a month. more than smoking the crap weed, but then again you do not have to smoke so much.
it is a "recreational thing"

I sued to spend $4,000 a year for cigarretes between me and my ex-wife, before we quit.
that was a significant amount! it became the down payment on my house when we quit

[atsonicpark]

Exactly.

Thanks for actually taking the time to figure out what I meant instead of just going "fuck you weed's the shit" or something.

$30 a week doesn't seem too bad compared to cigarette costs... How much is a carton of cigarettes now? Like $35-50?

But, yeah, I guess you pretty much hit it on the head: weed is a recreational thing, and I think it should be treated the same way as going to the beach or something. If you want to smoke, cool. If you don't want to, cool. That's what I meant by, "I don't see why you'd ever quit, but I don't see why you'd ever start either." Don't make it this huge part of your life but don't just say, "No! I will never smoke again!" Just treat it as something recreational... that makes more sense.

[!@#$%!]

atsonicpark--

i'm in favor of people doing whatever they want-- if they want to commit suicide, that's their choice.

i'm not "defending" weed, i'm simply pointing at the relativity of things, your $100 in weed is someone else's $6.50 etc etc. there are people who take cough syrup a lot more often than you do.

addicts are gonna be addicts regardless of the substance being whiskey, heroin, weed, pills, meth, gambling, masturbation, etc.

i think nobody here is "in favor of addiction", that's a clear point yet one that nobody has hit on the head yet. so i'll repeat it-- clearly, nobody here is in favor of addiction.

most of us are for the right to do what you choose as long as it does not harm others.

most of us "disapprove" of people doing stupid shit-- any kind of stupid shit. but don't want to stop them if it's their choice.

the fact is, weed should be legal even if people can potentially abuse it, because many individuals can potentially enjoy it within reason, just like SO many other things that are legal but people abuse.

but is it worth a war to legalize weed? not in my view.

on that note, i'd better get back to work cos posting this is stupid for me right now-- on account of having work to do. shirking work is stupid, and i disapprove of my actions. bye.

[Rob Instigator]

I think muff diving should be legal