[pbradley]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

marx and marxists failed to take into account many fundamental traits of human nature

they wrongly assumed that society can indoctrinate you to be generous and altruistic and to think like the masses despite your own individual instincts. when that fails, you're blamed for it and shipped to the gulag.

which is the same as peole who think they can train the gay out of a gay person

biology >> ideology

At the same time, extreme theories of democratic capitalism would indoctrinate us to reject altruism and generosity in favor of absolute individualism. Both of which are fundamental traits of human nature as found in the right and left hemispheres of the brain. For a human political system, we need both.

[floatingslowly]

ohol si ho, my freedom-loving friends! ohol si ho!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pbradley

At the same time, extreme theories of democratic capitalism would indoctrinate us to reject altruism and generosity in favor of absolute individualism. Both of which are fundamental traits of human nature as found in the right and left hemispheres of the brain. For a human political system, we need both.

very true. this is one of the explanations of failed collectivist agriculture policies from the Ukraine to Derg-Ethiopia, from Korea to 1990s Zimbabwe..

people need to be motivated to increase production, not only through ideals and social support, but cold, hard profit. It is the driving incentive behind development..

the irony is that it was a good idea that did not work. After all, today the major farming is done collectively, but by HUGE, Agrobusinesses which are mutli-billion dollar companies, and most agricultural production in the developed world is done through these capitalist collectives, however the key to their success over the socialist collectives is the profit margin.

people inevitably need to have the opportunity to make money in order to thrive and advance.. and they can make profit while sharing with their neighbors, if there is a balance.

[_slavo_]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

ohol si ho, my freedom-loving friends! ohol si ho!

all right, in honour of your devoted fellowship, i'm going to teach you another lesson, dear scholar:

"osol si ho"
(meaning: "put a bit of salt on your willy")

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by _slavo_

all right, in honour of your devoted fellowship, i'm going to teach you another lesson, dear scholar:

"osol si ho"
(meaning: "put a bit of salt on your willy")

ahh the things you can learn

[Genteel Death]

this thread is full of idiocy, especially the last two pages.

[_slavo_]

As usual, you won't tell us why you think so and just will go on babbling.

[Genteel Death]

I think I gave you a hint earlier on in this thread, then thought it was better staying clear of an internet political debate centred on defensive self-pity. Any time you want to discuss communism, capitalism, or left/right ideologies in general, please feel free to use the pm function, like you suggested. Oh, and the freedom comment earlier wasn't ironic, it was sarcastic.

[_slavo_]

okay, fair enough. not anything unlike i'd expect. good night.

[Genteel Death]

Sweet dreams.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by _slavo_

all right, in honour of your devoted fellowship, i'm going to teach you another lesson, dear scholar:

"osol si ho"
(meaning: "put a bit of salt on your willy")

ten thousand thank yous!

I feel like I'm one step closer to fluency!

in communist Czechoslovakia, willy salts YOU!

____________

I've always found "communists" to be tiring. like "hippie", it's used by self-centered people to establish a false moral high-ground.

if they really thought that people all deserved equal treatment, they wouldn't feel the need to tell other people how to live.

fork-tongued fascists. the lot of them.

[Genteel Death]

Americans wouldn't know a thing about a certain government imposing, not just suggesting, a certain idea of living on entire nations. The hipocrisy.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by pbradley

At the same time, extreme theories of democratic capitalism would indoctrinate us to reject altruism and generosity in favor of absolute individualism. Both of which are fundamental traits of human nature as found in the right and left hemispheres of the brain. For a human political system, we need both.

yes, absolutely, which is why i laugh at these tax-free "every man for himself" libertarian twats-- ayn rand, that nordquist cunt, newt gingrich, all that republican crapola, the fallacious pioneer mentality, and the people who are bitching against health care reform. sick selfish cunts. fuck them.

i don't live in germany and i'm sure they have their injustices like everywhere else, but their model of social democracy or social capitalism seems like a reasonable one to me-- a measure of free market, a measure of social protections, strong labor unions, better education and job security... of course maybe it takes germans to run such a system, who knows if it would replicate well elsewhere.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

if they really thought that people all deserved equal treatment, they wouldn't feel the need to tell other people how to live.

fork-tongued fascists.

where's the dividing line between a facist and having a preference for one set of ideas over another?

besides, marx was in favour of dismantling centralised goverment so there wouldn't be as much telling of others what to do, government would be mopre local & people would govern themselves to a greater extent than they do now by ticking a box once every 4 or 5 years to pick between some guys living hundreds of miles away.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

marx and marxists failed to take into account many fundamental traits of human nature

they wrongly assumed that society can indoctrinate you to be generous and altruistic and to think like the masses despite your own individual instincts. when that fails, you're blamed for it and shipped to the gulag.

which is the same as peole who think they can train the gay out of a gay person

biology >> ideology

i think you're confusing utopianism with communism

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

i think you're confusing utopianism with communism

communism is not utopian? i regard communism as a kind of godless christian paradise. it would work wonderfully if everyone was a saint. "here, have my coat." the abolition of private property, a central tenet of marxism, is in itself a utopia.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

communism is not utopian? i regard communism as a kind of godless christian paradise. it would work wonderfully if everyone was a saint. "here, have my coat." the abolition of private property, a central tenet of marxism, is in itself a utopia.

just read marx. and no, communism and utopianism are two different things, and there are some very interesting and well thought out arguements for the abolition of private property. and besides, it's not hard to think of a situation where you might give someone use of your coat.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

just read marx. and no, communism and utopianism are two different things, and there are some very interesting and well thought out arguements for the abolition of private property. and besides, it's not hard to think of a situation where you might give someone use of your coat.

i've read the communist manifesto, the sacred family, the german ideology, and excerpts from other books, like the 18th brummaire. das kapital is a bit fucking heavy so i haven't.

as i've stated before (see my replies to pbradley), there is definitely a place for sharing in the world, and there is such thing as giving something up for the common good, but from there to the compulsory abolition of private property-- it's simply too much to ever be practical.

and even when it's done, there's always hierarchies-- those on top of the structure end up getting the bigger piece of the pie whereas the pawns of the revolution get shit. it's human nature-- we're hierarchical beasts by instinct, not by training. you'd have to abolish the human nervous system.

hey, i know you mean well, but i see no practical way to establish this system without devolving into a police state again. "give up your coat, or else..."

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

sick selfish cunts. fuck them.

amen!

 

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Americans wouldn't know a thing about a certain government imposing, not just suggesting, a certain idea of living on entire nations. The hipocrisy.

oh yeah, its all roses. The public school curriculum doesn't brainwash millions of kids a year to forget about the genocide of the indians, remember the founding fathers were all about freedom (accept for the slaves ), and in general white wash all the reality from the past.

The extreme rightists in the government don't brainwash the people with misinformation to believe in the myth of meritocracy in America which intern breeds the selfish, apathetic, anti-socialim, anti-public services attitudes that distort the perspectives of a good size portion of the American people.

The Military-Industrial complex doesn't leech into society to create the people power to build new military shit, and send the blinded-by-patriotism soldiers to do dirty work in places like Iraq, Mexico and Columbia to make $$$ for the faceless suits who profit on that sort of thing.

no, its all roses and freedom and liberty and justice for all, or have they just gotten to you too?

but hey, you didn't hear that shit from me..

 

[EVOLghost]

yay!