[demonrail666]

The question now is who do you want to see face each other in the semis? The obvious thing would be to at least hope Bayern and Barca can be kept apart in the hope that they meet in the final. But anything can happen in a final so maybe the more definitive match up would see them facing each other, home and away, over two legs, in the semis.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The question now is who do you want to see face each other in the semis? The obvious thing would be to at least hope Bayern and Barca can be kept apart in the hope that they meet in the final. But anything can happen in a final so maybe the more definitive match up would see them facing each other, home and away, over two legs, in the semis.

ootah... to paraphrase van gaal, what i want is irrelevant, ha ha ha. i have no control! i'll take whatever's good.

i want to see barcelona up close which i haven't really-- this will be a good chance since either way the semis are going to be 2 individual dates (mondays? weird...)

maybe it will come down to who will be more rested and who will be struggling in their leagues, exhausted & spent. maybe??

we gotta take a look at those tables...

--

ps - okay, what i want-- i want the 2 la liga contenders to eliminate themselves in the semis so we can have a transnational final.

[demonrail666]

I didn't see Juventus tonight but just looking at who they were facing in terms of Monaco's attackers, I have to wonder if their defence will hold out the same way, especially over two legs, against either Bayern's, Real's or Barcelona's.

Bayern always seem to have a bad game in them. Their quality over two legs, though, makes me think they'd be too much for either Juve or Real in the semis. Against Barcelona, their inconsistency might be less forgiving. They can't afford to be misfiring up front given that it's almost impossible to stop all of Barcelona's forwards. If they have a bad night against Messi, Suarez and Neymar, they'd likely be punished far more than they were by Porto in that first leg.

A Real v Barcelona semi would be cagey as fuck. Both teams know each other almost too well. I think Barcelona are better but I wouldn't want to call it.

Personally I'd like Bayern to meet Barcelona in the semis, so we can see how they deal with each other over two legs, rather than in the slightly artificial intensity of a final.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Personally I'd like Bayern to meet Barcelona in the semis, so we can see how they deal with each other over two legs, rather than in the slightly artificial intensity of a final.

oh, yes!! i didn't think about that... that would be great.

but if that's the case then let juve beat real. i can't stand to see cronaldo's punchable face in a final.

true what you said about the quality of monaco's attack. still, seemed razor-thin margins to me at times. but yes, lewandowski/suárez they're not.

the ping-pong bayern did yesterday was insane-- and very effective this time. what does it take for them to make it work? is it just psychology? they truly baffle me. when they work they work fantastic and when they fail they're just stuck in the mud. zero or hero-- no midway. what's the key?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

what's the key?

As huge a fan of Pep as I am, I think it's true that his tactical experiments do sometimes backfire. So I suppose the key is with him. I'm not saying that even if he gets everything right, they're necessarily good enough to beat Barcelona, but if they fail in the semis against either Real or Juve, then I think the bulk of criticism would rightly be directed squarely at him.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Very tight and niggly between Real and Atletico. Ronaldo should've scored but not much attacking action from either side. The kind of match that would've probably seen Suchfriends reach for the noose by now.

 

Even Ronaldo couldn't bear to watch anymore!on the real though I can handle a match like this one..

Originally Posted by ESPN FC

23 (8 on goal) shots vs 6 (2 on goal)
10 vs 4 corner kicks
2 vs 7 saves

9 saves? 29 shots? 14 corners??

Sure Atletico got their ass handed to them but Real Madrid clearly showed up.

Still I obviously would have much more enjoyed Porto getting straight beatdown by Bayern. Here is a highlight from the match

 

[demonrail666]

The stats make it look more exciting than it was. I wanted Atletico to win but I gave a sigh of relief when Real scored in the last couple of minutes and put an end to the prospect of more of the same in extra time.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The stats make it look more exciting than it was. I wanted Atletico to win but I gave a sigh of relief when Real scored in the last couple of minutes and put an end to the prospect of more of the same in extra time.

 

Oh, one of those fuckers? Definitely would have preferred the Bayern match then..

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

As huge a fan of Pep as I am, I think it's true that his tactical experiments do sometimes backfire. So I suppose the key is with him. I'm not saying that even if he gets everything right, they're necessarily good enough to beat Barcelona, but if they fail in the semis against either Real or Juve, then I think the bulk of criticism would rightly be directed squarely at him.

i know but... the lineup was *the same* as the first round except for badstuber... and yet they were dead one week and firing on all pistons the next one.

incomprehensible.

maybe beckenbauer was right and they were all on sleeping pills...

[blue]

You'd expect such a young team like Porto's to crumble down mentally after an early goal. And then there’s Lopetegui’s inexperience(he’s also a young manager), inability or even reluctance perhaps to set up the game defensively.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i know but... the lineup was *the same* as the first round except for badstuber... and yet they were dead one week and firing on all pistons the next one.

incomprehensible.

maybe beckenbauer was right and they were all on sleeping pills...

Yeah but we know Pep gives key players multiple roles, even when they appear to be in the same position on the pitch. That makes it almost impossible for opposing teams to work them out but does come with its own risks.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

defenestrate pep the baroque

DRAFT HEYNCKES!

Would love to have seen how spectacular Heynckes' last season would've been if he'd had to deal with an injury list like Pep has this season.

[blue]

Five world champions, Bernat and a genius like Thiago. Hardly a shite team.

[demonrail666]

Far from shit, obviously, I was just saying that, relative to Heynckes' last season, Pep's injury list has been massive. Taking nothing away from Heynckes but I'm not sure he'd have achieved what he did with the likes of Robben, Ribery, Alaba and Schweinsteiger all side-lined.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by blue

You'd expect such a young team like Porto's to crumble down mentally after an early goal. And then there’s Lopetegui’s inexperience(he’s also a young manager), inability or even reluctance perhaps to set up the game defensively.

oh yes yes... i had been expecting porto to park the bus... they did no such thing (and if they did i didn't notice because bayern was *everywhere*).

the ones who crumbled down mentally were bayern the previous week. i did not see porto give up... they were just overwhelmed by bayern's teleportation skills, but they did not throw the towel (just got increasingly more violent).

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah but we know Pep gives key players multiple roles, even when they appear to be in the same position on the pitch. That makes it almost impossible for opposing teams to work them out but does come with its own risks.

which are?

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Would love to have seen how spectacular Heynckes' last season would've been if he'd had to deal with an injury list like Pep has this season.

a huge hypothetical considering it's a different team now, post-champions win. would he have gotze and lewandowski?

i don't know that it would have been "spectacular" but i think it would have been solid.

spectacular/solid --- that's what i'm talking about pep's bayern this season-- they're either spectacular or they crumble. i wanna know what causes that-- concretely and specifically i mean. what makes it work that way.

i'm not saying anybody has the answers. with other teams you can say that-- e.g. we've x-rayed dortmund's failings to exhaustion at this point. they're comprehensible. but there's no x-ray for pep's secret sauce, is there? this does not cease to puzzle me. and of course it's a good thing when people do not understand your tactics. it confuses me to no end.

i mean, after losing 3-1, you'd think they come back to win 2-0, but no, 6-1, and at this stage of the competition. wtf. yes, teams win, lose and tie, it's part of the natural order of things-- but it's not the averages that puzzle me here-- it's the extremes.

[blue]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

oh yes yes... i had been expecting porto to park the bus... they did no such thing (and if they did i didn't notice because bayern was *everywhere*).

the ones who crumbled down mentally were bayern the previous week. i did not see porto give up... they were just overwhelmed by bayern's teleportation skills, but they did not throw the towel (just got increasingly more violent).

They did. Fabiano for example, had a good deal of blame for 2 or 3 goals.

Porto were playing a team 10x their budget and the absences of Danilo and Alex Sandro were major setbacks for them (much more than Robben and Ribery for Bayern), don’t get me wrong, they died standing.

I think it wasn't so much of an outer-worldly exhibition by Buyern but that the way Lopetegui set the midfield verged on suicidal. With four midfielders he basically set a red carpet for Bayern on the wings and cut off Porto’s attacking depth. And Reyes on the right was a pretty poor choice.

[blue]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Far from shit, obviously, I was just saying that, relative to Heynckes' last season, Pep's injury list has been massive. Taking nothing away from Heynckes but I'm not sure he'd have achieved what he did with the likes of Robben, Ribery, Alaba and Schweinsteiger all side-lined.

Are you saying that Guardiola was right to be a cunt to their team doctor of 40 years?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by blue

Are you saying that Guardiola was right to be a cunt to their team doctor of 40 years?

that was the big bayern news all week and it was seen as a power consolidation move on pep's part. not sure what to think of it-- i don't have the facts to judge really, just the media reports.

funny thing that he plays with the same injured squad and proceeds to win though.

so while he could conceivably be blamed for injuries, the loss itself wasn't the doctor's fault.

[blue]

No, I think it’s a perfectly normal and understandable reaction. It’s just that Pep himself and some of his partisans in the press have created an image of Guardiola (stainless, immaculate, etc.) and often use it as some sort of moral high ground when comparing him to the other top manager in world (the evil one).

 

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

spectacular/solid --- that's what i'm talking about pep's bayern this season-- they're either spectacular or they crumble. i wanna know what causes that-- concretely and specifically i mean. what makes it work that way.

I don't know why, other than to point to Pep's inbuilt urge to experiment. Not saying it's a virtue but so far it's hardly proved a massive obstacle. They've won the Bundesliga without breaking sweat and got to the semis of the Champions League. Hardly a crisis.

Originally Posted by blue

Are you saying that Guardiola was right to be a cunt to their team doctor of 40 years?

I don't know the backstory there. Maybe Pep is more guilty than it seems. I don't know.

Originally Posted by blue

It’s just that Pep himself and some of his partisans in the press have created an image of Guardiola (stainless, immaculate, etc.) and often use it as some sort of moral high ground when comparing him to the other top manager in world (the evil one).

I don't see him as some kind of footballing saint and have no interest in those who do. I just think there's a kind of reverse logic with some people who want to knock him down because he's not perfect. To whom I'd simply ask, who is?

The problem I find with some Bayern fans is they expect every game to be a cakewalk. They look at Heynckes with rose coloured glasses because he won them the CL and destroyed Barcelona along the way, while at the same time forgetting that that same year they came very close to going out in the quarters against Arsenal and could've easily lost to Dortmund in the final. That's not criticising Heynckes just saying that, at that level, the top teams/managers have their ups and downs.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I don't know why, other than to point to Pep's inbuilt urge to experiment. Not saying it's a virtue but so far it's hardly proved a massive obstacle. They've won the Bundesliga without breaking sweat and got to the semis of the Champions League. Hardly a crisis.

like i said before, it's not the averages that concern me but the extremes-- particularly, the lows. a table position is won by averages. a cup is a different story-- one extreme failure and you're out.

when wednesday's game got to 5-1, martinez got lively and there was a risk of a 5-3 and porto wins on away goals. of course that risk is everywhere always. pep was smart enough to pack in some defenders (rode, dante, wieser) to tamp that down.

seems to me, mulling this over, that his collapses tend to be defensive. it's not just a dante thing.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The problem I find with some Bayern fans is they expect every game to be a cakewalk. They look at Heynckes with rose coloured glasses because he won them the CL and destroyed Barcelona along the way, while at the same time forgetting that that same year they came very close to going out in the quarters against Arsenal and could've easily lost to Dortmund in the final. That's not criticising Heynckes just saying that, at that level, the top teams/managers have their ups and downs.

right, but again, it's not the averages-- it's the total collapses that concern me. they don't lose 1-0 or 2-1. They lose 3-1, 4-2, 4-1, 4-0. like last year vs. real madrid.