[Antagon]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

If Antagon has truly been watching this thread from the sidelines, then Antagon knows I held to that same narrative throughout the Mueller Investigation. As many here at SYG responded with: how do you know/you can’t know, all the evidence hasn’t been released, he’s building his case, it’s going to been bad/this is really bad for Trump. I responded several times throughout the thread pointing out it was possible I could be mistaken and if so, I would happily admit it:

as I said on May 18, 2018


As I said June 6, 2

And it was bad for him. The effect wasn't as immediate as many, including myself, would have hoped, but Mueller himself has later claimed that he himself cannot charge, convict, hold a trial or draft articles of impeachment but the Democrats may try to set that process in motion based on the extensive report. A lot of the points made by the report actually made it into the impeachment case. And whaddaya know, Trump was actually impeached. In my opinion it took way too long because some of the more corporate, establishment-minded Dems were too hesitant to consider it right away, but they did have a change of heart in the end. If your "articles are handed" over is to mean handed over to the Senate (if you're referring to the Bloomberg op-ed that's been regurgitated by Fox News later), I'm afraid I have to disappoint you. The House has the full authority over the impeachment vote. The Senate then is in charge of the trial. Impeachment and conviction/removal are not one and the same. Hence, he very much was impeached and his trial is now pending.

As for why you "would not" post his: Considering your political leanings, it just struck me as odd, that's all.

Yeah, I did not reply to the whole diatribe of cherrypicked self-quotations. Neither do I want to spend all my time on that, nor do I have the time right row now. Make of it what you will. And I'm sure you will.

[Antagon]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

There is no doubt expressing my unpopular/opposite opinion draws the ire and wrath of many here at SYG, because I’ve been publicly attacked and wished dead.

Also, I have no clue what you are referring to right now, but that's of course not cool and I'm sure most SYG members don't actually wish physical harm upon you. We might get quite heated from time to time as the things the Trump-admin has wrought upon the people are unbelievably inhumane and horrible. We're talking about a president that has made remarks about how in "the old days" people would have been "carried out on stretchers", a man that has been accused of several counts of sexual misconduct and even rape, a commander in chief that has pushed for a ban on muslim travelers, argued for a goddamn moat with alligators and for shooting refugees in their legs. Plus, his admin has essentially put children in cages, let us not forget about that.

This has been a term of fear and aggression so far. So I get why people are incredibly angry when someone uses the codes, the terminology and the sources of said admin to - either intentionally or unintentionally - feed into its narrative. And I get that people don't want to see this board spammed with that type of nastiness, neither do I, but here we are.

People care about that sort of stuff, and for a good reason. Any reasonable person would. So things get heated every now and then. I see no scenario were they wouldn't even a tiny bit. But of course wishing actual physical harm upon each other isn't cool. And I doubt the folks around here legitimately do in their heart of hearts. So, in the spirit of today (damn, I hate myself for conjuring up that trope, but here we go) - have a good one. And I hope that one day you'll see all that vile shit for what it is. One can hope.

For now: Merry Christmas (once again, not proud of myself for conjuring that up, but what can you do, it's a handy, culturally-charged tool to make a point).

[h8kurdt]

Merry Christmas (I don't want to fight)

[!@#$%!]

 

 

[ilduclo]

Just like his hero, Donnie: always the victim, NEVER the victimizer

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by Antagon

Also, I have no clue what you are referring to right now, but that's of course not cool and I'm sure most SYG members don't actually wish physical harm upon you. We might get quite heated from time to time as the things the Trump-admin has wrought upon the people are unbelievably inhumane and horrible. We're talking about a president that has made remarks about how in "the old days" people would have been "carried out on stretchers", a man that has been accused of several counts of sexual misconduct and even rape, a commander in chief that has pushed for a ban on muslim travelers, argued for a goddamn moat with alligators and for shooting refugees in their legs. Plus, his admin has essentially put children in cages, let us not forget about that.

This has been a term of fear and aggression so far. So I get why people are incredibly angry when someone uses the codes, the terminology and the sources of said admin to - either intentionally or unintentionally - feed into its narrative. And I get that people don't want to see this board spammed with that type of nastiness, neither do I, but here we are.

People care about that sort of stuff, and for a good reason. Any reasonable person would. So things get heated every now and then. I see no scenario were they wouldn't even a tiny bit. But of course wishing actual physical harm upon each other isn't cool. And I doubt the folks around here legitimately do in their heart of hearts. So, in the spirit of today (damn, I hate myself for conjuring up that trope, but here we go) - have a good one. And I hope that one day you'll see all that vile shit for what it is. One can hope.

For now: Merry Christmas (once again, not proud of myself for conjuring that up, but what can you do, it's a handy, culturally-charged tool to make a point).

Antagon, I appreciate the class and civility of your post. I did have a Merry Christmas and I was blessed to spend it with a house full of friends and family. I hope Christmas and the holiday season was a similar experience for you and everyone here at SYG.

It would take some doing, and I don’t have the time today, to pull quotes from a few (mostly !@#$%!) who have wished me ill. You can look on this page where !@#$%! posted a picture of the Nazi-elite with Santa Claus. You can go to the “post something completely irrelevant” thread and after I wished _slavo_ Happy Birthday, !@#$%! replies with: Nazi Punks Fuck Off.

Then ilducio claims:

Originally Posted by ilduclo

Just like his hero, Donnie: always the victim, NEVER the victimizer

Of course, ilducio doesn’t “quote & reply” with any examples of me doing the victimizing......no one NEVER does! I’m guessing this is because you can’t find any of my post where I’ve cussed out or threatened anyone.

I’ve said it before and I’m repeating it now. I’m not a Natzi racist and I’ve never posted anything here at SYG supporting that. Today I’m telling !@#$%!, just like I told guest last month, PLEASE report any racist comments (or pictures) by myself to the SYG Moderators so they can delete said content and confront me about my actions.

(NOTE: to be honest, I’ve mostly accepted !@#$%! insults in jest and I’ve enjoyed the back and forth and have treated it so. However, !@#$%! continuing to follow my post in other threads with Natzi imagery is growing tiresome and I’m afraid, slowly killing the board)

Also, I’ve stated numerous times in this thread, it’s okay if we disagree and I welcome any civilized discussions. Antagon, I do hope you consider becoming more active in this thread as we approach the 2020 election as I welcome and look forward to your input!

[ilduclo]

did he wish you Xmas cheer, bitey? (along with your pals, the war criminals!)

[!@#$%!]

lmao now he’s weaseling—he’s not the persecuted victim anymore—it’s the poor board that suffers!

as if he wasn’t the actual turd in the punch bowl, creeping out everyone who looks at his ideology and propaganda

way past beyond the point of “reasonable debate”

self-awareness = zero

[Antagon]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

It would take some doing, and I don’t have the time today, to pull quotes from a few (mostly !@#$%!) who have wished me ill. You can look on this page where !@#$%! posted a picture of the Nazi-elite with Santa Claus. You can go to the “post something completely irrelevant” thread and after I wished _slavo_ Happy Birthday, !@#$%! replies with: Nazi Punks Fuck Off.

Those instances (the ones pointed out here) are someone voicing their discomfort with far right talking points seeping into this forum and being repeated ad nauseam. I see no actual ill-wishes concerning your personal well-being in them. They are harsh indictments of the type of stuff you're posting here. And as I will lay out in detail below the next quote, there's a whole bunch of legitimate concerns those two as well as others have no doubt tried to communicate to you. It's not like this whole thing started yesterday. Context certainly does matter.

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

I’ve said it before and I’m repeating it now. I’m not a Natzi racist and I’ve never posted anything here at SYG supporting that. Today I’m telling !@#$%!, just like I told guest last month, PLEASE report any racist comments (or pictures) by myself to the SYG Moderators so they can delete said content and confront me about my actions.

Things are not quite that simple. But a certain rhetoric, certain sources and talking points carry connotations. Just a random example: Putting repeat emphasis on Obama's middle name for instance implies that whoever does that has some issues with that middle name. It instills an image of the "other". And it's been a favorite of rightwing pundits that sought to discredit him.
And more broadly, spreading false information, using the lingo of the current president and so on and so forth displays a large amount of devotion to that machinery.
At this point, so much is known about the person in question, one Donald Trump. There are several instances that put some of the Nazi-comparisons into context. And I'm by no means the first one to point these out, but here are just a handful of incidents, behavioral patterns and pieces of information that should serve as a little refresher:


*Trump has retweeted a quote by Mussolini and didn't distance himself from said fascist dictator when it was pointed out to him.


*Trump has claimed there were "very fine people" on both sides in the wake of a counterprotester being killed during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville in 2017. And this year, his reflections on said remark included him praising Robert E. Lee, even going so far as to state the following: "I have spoken to many generals here, right at the White House, and many people thought of the generals, they think maybe he was their favorite general."

*Ivana Trump mentioned in her testimony that Donnie had a copy of "My New Order" - a collection of Hitler's speeches in a cabinet by his bed - an anecdotal account you may say, but I'm inclined to believe her; Trump constantly labels mainstream media as "fake news", disavowing pretty much anything that doesn't stroke his ego - which draws eerie parallels to Hitler's strategy of discrediting any media critical of him and calling it "Lügenpresse" ("lying press"); there are plenty more instances that draw some parallels - all of them, as well as those already mentioned in this bracket are also summed up here in this op-ed.


And there is plenty more, but it's kind of late around here and I guess I'll call it a day for now. Not quite done speaking my mind though.

So what am I trying to say here? Am I saying Trump is Hitler 2.0, a carbon copy of WWII-era Nazism? Well, not quite. All things considered, the amount of power National Socialists wielded and their widespread influence over the masses was much bigger. And then there's the harrowing scope of their atrocities: The Holocaust, the invasion and oppression of then Chechoslovakia, Poland and France, the most destructive war in human history, an abhorent ideology that had poisoned many minds and has produced sociopolitcal aftershocks that can be felt even today. Those are under no circumstances to be minimized and should serve as a tragic reminder of what unchecked fear-mongering, nationalism and sheer hatred can lead to. Hence, I won't say one is exactly like the other. However, not being able to see some similarities with all that information at hand is just being willfully blind. An admin does not have to check all the same boxes to fish in the same toxic pond as those power structures. Evil may take on many different forms - National Socialism, Jim Crow, The KKK, Stalinism etc. - but they tend to make use of a specific set of patterns, a common language if you will. Not all of them apply to each one of them, but all of them include at least a few of those: Cult of person; "Us" vs. "Them" - The construction of a mindset that emboldens a certain group and singles out those that supposedly don't belong in that group; Suppression of dissent, whether it may be in the form of systematic rhetoric or actual threats of violence; Violent rhetoric and violent actions in general; An emphasis on nationalism; Trying to play into people's fears and frustrations to gain their approval and to manipulate them; etc.


Trump checks pretty much all of those boxes. And he surrounds himself with people that like to swim in that pool. He's mostly out for his own gains and fortunately his approval ratings are quite low. And he does have a vocal opposition that gets a platform, so fortunately, some of his most vile policies/attempted actions were thwarted. Plus, he's quite incompetent as he's proved time and time again. But that doesn't mean he isn't actively trying to be one of the most despicable human beings out there right now. And I must say, if you don't mind me quoting one of his similarly atrocious predecessors: Mission Accomplished!

We need to be careful with what we surround ourselves with. Hate begets hate. Everyone can potentially be deceived by the powers that be. It takes some self-reflection to see the systems that surround you for what they are. And it's on each person to not feed into those systems, because that makes them grow. This is what I've been meaning to say here. I have no illusions this will make huge ripples, as others have surely tried to communicate similar things, possibly in a more eloquent way. And still here we are. But whatever, I spoke my mind.

[!@#$%!]

antagon, friend—this is how dog whistle politics works:

https://youtu.be/X_8E3ENrKrQ

and that’s of course how beauregard here claims to be “not racist”, while lying through his teeth

(he doesn’t say n— n— n— he just says “hussein”)

good luck trying to reason with that piece of shit lololol. prepare yourself to have all your labors dismissed by willful ignorance.

[Antagon]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

antagon, friend—this is how dog whistle politics works:

https://youtu.be/X_8E3ENrKrQ

and that’s of course how beauregard here claims to be “not racist”, while lying through his teeth

(he doesn’t say n— n— n— he just says “hussein”)

good luck trying to reason with that piece of shit lololol. prepare yourself to have all your labors dismissed by willful ignorance.

I am aware of the dogwhistles. I've been trying to point that out in my post. But I think it might have been phrased in a way that was a bit too drawn out and too vague-sounding. So thanks for bringing it up again and putting it into a more concrete context.

Like I said, I have no illusions this will actually get through to him, but I thought I just had to speak my mind, unload if you will. And I have no intentions of leading any further lengthy back and forth. I too have little patience for willfully ignorant people. And as I've pointed out in my previous post, not seeing the obvious parallels to incredibly racist and oppressive power-systems in the past at this point with all the information out there is indeed willful ignorance.

I appreciate your concern, I figure you've been there. As have others. But fear not, I have lurked this thread for some time and am aware it won't amount to anything. If anything, it was an exercise in letting off some steam. There's so much ugliness around and sometimes you just have to point at it and call it by its name.

[ilduclo]

Trump’s Interior Department removed “sexual orientation” from a statement in the agency’s ethics guide regarding workplace discrimination.

“You shall adhere to all laws and regulations that provide equal opportunities for all Americans regardless of race, color, religion, sex, age, or handicap,” reads one of 14 principles of ethical behavior in the agency’s 2017 guidelines.

The 2009 version President Barack Obama’s Interior Department issued included the categories “race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, age, or disability.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sexua...b0b2520d0ca480


The above-linked report notes that current Interior Sec. David Bernhardt literally red-lined the phrase out of a letter sent on his first day with the agency in 2017 while serving in a lesser role.

[Antagon]

"Guy's frickin' evil, man": NYT leaks video of Navy SEALs describing Edward Gallagher's atrocious war crimes.

[ilduclo]

Yeah, the Gallagher thing is stone sick evil. Lay the blame on Shrub for starting the whole fucking Iraq thing. Him and Dickie Cheney can rot in hell.

[Bytor Peltor]

Interesting narrative you’ve weaved together, no doubt that took some doing. However, you’ve done so without providing any racists acts by myself. You blather on about using someone’s proper name is somehow begetting hate, but you totally failed to provide any situation where I used said name in hate. Any connotation perceived by the reader and any fear or discomfort they are struggling with from reading a post is on behalf of the reader.

I’ll state it again, you won’t find any post by myself berating President Obama during his presidency, nor will you find any supportive post regarding President Trump during his campaign run. I’ve never displayed hate or racist tendencies towards anyone here at SYG......it’s that simple!!!

This is the TRUTH!

However, I could provide numerous post from over the years by long standing SYG members where they berate, mock and make fun of Christianity......but I’m not foolish enough to try and compare that to begetting hate or hate speech. More importantly, I never lashed out at others and I never perceived such rhetoric as an attack on myself.

I’m not so willfully blind that I don’t understand the difference!

Originally Posted by Antagon

Those instances (the ones pointed out here) are someone voicing their discomfort with far right talking points seeping into this forum and being repeated ad nauseam. I see no actual ill-wishes concerning your personal well-being in them. They are harsh indictments of the type of stuff you're posting here. And as I will lay out in detail below the next quote, there's a whole bunch of legitimate concerns those two as well as others have no doubt tried to communicate to you. It's not like this whole thing started yesterday. Context certainly does matter.


Things are not quite that simple. But a certain rhetoric, certain sources and talking points carry connotations. Just a random example: Putting repeat emphasis on Obama's middle name for instance implies that whoever does that has some issues with that middle name. It instills an image of the "other". And it's been a favorite of rightwing pundits that sought to discredit him.
And more broadly, spreading false information, using the lingo of the current president and so on and so forth displays a large amount of devotion to that machinery.
At this point, so much is known about the person in question, one Donald Trump. There are several instances that put some of the Nazi-comparisons into context. And I'm by no means the first one to point these out, but here are just a handful of incidents, behavioral patterns and pieces of information that should serve as a little refresher:


*Trump has retweeted a quote by Mussolini and didn't distance himself from said fascist dictator when it was pointed out to him.


*Trump has claimed there were "very fine people" on both sides in the wake of a counterprotester being killed during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville in 2017. And this year, his reflections on said remark included him praising Robert E. Lee, even going so far as to state the following: "I have spoken to many generals here, right at the White House, and many people thought of the generals, they think maybe he was their favorite general."

*Ivana Trump mentioned in her testimony that Donnie had a copy of "My New Order" - a collection of Hitler's speeches in a cabinet by his bed - an anecdotal account you may say, but I'm inclined to believe her; Trump constantly labels mainstream media as "fake news", disavowing pretty much anything that doesn't stroke his ego - which draws eerie parallels to Hitler's strategy of discrediting any media critical of him and calling it "Lügenpresse" ("lying press"); there are plenty more instances that draw some parallels - all of them, as well as those already mentioned in this bracket are also summed up here in this op-ed.


And there is plenty more, but it's kind of late around here and I guess I'll call it a day for now. Not quite done speaking my mind though.

So what am I trying to say here? Am I saying Trump is Hitler 2.0, a carbon copy of WWII-era Nazism? Well, not quite. All things considered, the amount of power National Socialists wielded and their widespread influence over the masses was much bigger. And then there's the harrowing scope of their atrocities: The Holocaust, the invasion and oppression of then Chechoslovakia, Poland and France, the most destructive war in human history, an abhorent ideology that had poisoned many minds and has produced sociopolitcal aftershocks that can be felt even today. Those are under no circumstances to be minimized and should serve as a tragic reminder of what unchecked fear-mongering, nationalism and sheer hatred can lead to. Hence, I won't say one is exactly like the other. However, not being able to see some similarities with all that information at hand is just being willfully blind. An admin does not have to check all the same boxes to fish in the same toxic pond as those power structures. Evil may take on many different forms - National Socialism, Jim Crow, The KKK, Stalinism etc. - but they tend to make use of a specific set of patterns, a common language if you will. Not all of them apply to each one of them, but all of them include at least a few of those: Cult of person; "Us" vs. "Them" - The construction of a mindset that emboldens a certain group and singles out those that supposedly don't belong in that group; Suppression of dissent, whether it may be in the form of systematic rhetoric or actual threats of violence; Violent rhetoric and violent actions in general; An emphasis on nationalism; Trying to play into people's fears and frustrations to gain their approval and to manipulate them; etc.


Trump checks pretty much all of those boxes. And he surrounds himself with people that like to swim in that pool. He's mostly out for his own gains and fortunately his approval ratings are quite low. And he does have a vocal opposition that gets a platform, so fortunately, some of his most vile policies/attempted actions were thwarted. Plus, he's quite incompetent as he's proved time and time again. But that doesn't mean he isn't actively trying to be one of the most despicable human beings out there right now. And I must say, if you don't mind me quoting one of his similarly atrocious predecessors: Mission Accomplished!

We need to be careful with what we surround ourselves with. Hate begets hate. Everyone can potentially be deceived by the powers that be. It takes some self-reflection to see the systems that surround you for what they are. And it's on each person to not feed into those systems, because that makes them grow. This is what I've been meaning to say here. I have no illusions this will make huge ripples, as others have surely tried to communicate similar things, possibly in a more eloquent way. And still here we are. But whatever, I spoke my mind.

[!@#$%!]

(we have to see the comedy in beauregard’s ridiculous replies)

[ilduclo]

Only Two Murdered In Texas Church Shooting Hailed As Second Amendment Christmas Miracle :

A man with a shotgun opened fire in a church in White Settlement (yes, really), Texas, yesterday, killing two parishioners before two members of the church's armed volunteer security team shot and killed the gunman. Police and state and local officials praised the quick response by the security volunteers for preventing a far worse massacre, and advocates of guns everywhere triumphantly pointed to the incident as proof guns save lives, at least after some lives are already lost.

Jack Cummings(yes, really) a minister at the West Freeway Church of Christ (yes, really), told the New York Times that even before the shooting started, the shooter had been "acting suspiciously," so the security volunteers were keeping an eye on him.

[tw2113]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

Only Two Murdered In Texas Church Shooting Hailed As Second Amendment Christmas Miracle :

A man with a shotgun opened fire in a church in White Settlement (yes, really), Texas, yesterday, killing two parishioners before two members of the church's armed volunteer security team shot and killed the gunman. Police and state and local officials praised the quick response by the security volunteers for preventing a far worse massacre, and advocates of guns everywhere triumphantly pointed to the incident as proof guns save lives, at least after some lives are already lost.

Jack Cummings(yes, really) a minister at the West Freeway Church of Christ (yes, really), told the New York Times that even before the shooting started, the shooter had been "acting suspiciously," so the security volunteers were keeping an eye on him.

Before any gun nut people jump in, it sounds like these were not casual citizens with open carry permits, they were people who I have to assume had a fair amount of training in more than just safe gun handling. They had certain amounts of security training as a whole.

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by tw2113

Before any gun nut people jump in, it sounds like these were not casual citizens with open carry permits, they were people who I have to assume had a fair amount of training in more than just safe gun handling. They had certain amounts of security training as a whole.

I know nothing about that church, but you’re probably 100% correct!

I’m aware of several churches who have security teams, foyer greeters and nursery workers. Three to four times a year, the church usually provides handgun training and certification......just like they provide first aid/CPR certification for nursery workers. Church members who choose to provide security are divided into teams and when it’s your teams turn, you usually provide active security for two weeks in a row and this is usually followed by 4-6 weeks of other teams providing the security.

I’m sure other churches throughout the states do something similar, but it’s been the way of doing things here in Texas for many years now.

 

[choc e-Claire]

It's tragic that you could be shot in your place of worship, regardless of what said religion is.