'art' seized in child pornography row. - Page 4

Washing Machine · 09.28.2007, 03:18 PM

Yes I think you are right. It the arrogance that is irritating

alyasa · 09.28.2007, 03:27 PM

But, not to put too fine a point on it, arrogance is what most artists are accused of... I think this is definitely related somewhat to intellectual superiority, the whole complex of I am this, therefore I am better...

Washing Machine · 09.28.2007, 03:41 PM

Perhaps. But I personally respect people for their own individual knowledge. I like to learn from people, if someone knows something I don't, great i'll listen intently, try my best to learn, swim around in the subject and do my own research to get a better understanding. Somethings like Sport are of no interest to me. I never claim it is or enter into arguments with people who are clearly passionate. I just say I don't know. I like to see all the sides of a shape before I pass a judgement on what shape it is. I might well be wrong. But at least my opinion is informed to some degree.

alyasa · 09.28.2007, 03:50 PM

Exactly, but insecurity is so rampant in this manufactured age, it's also impossible to claim you don't know anything about a subject. It seems every teenager and their kid brother would rather get in a fight than show their ignorance to others...

Washing Machine · 09.28.2007, 04:04 PM

I think its the recognition of what we don't know has always been important in advancing our progress. Its incredably important. No discussion ever goes anywhere when one party is utterly ignorant though.

I really would hope people havent lost the ability tio put all the information on the table and come to a conclusion. Whilst at the same time recogizing that they may well not have all the infomation at the table and when it does come not be too arrogant as to not give the new information its proper recogition and amead that conclusion as they go along. That is the ideal of reason.

alyasa · 09.28.2007, 04:07 PM

Most of what passes for discussion these days is nothing more than some form of showboating, mostly. I couldn't agree with your views more, there needs to be more 'open table' discourse to really get the ball rolling. Thank god for public forums...

Washing Machine · 09.28.2007, 04:25 PM

Thank God for the SY forum

Its part of the reason I respect Nan Goldin for taking on taboo issues even if i'm not huge fan of the approach used. I guess people like their art to have clear meanings and to get to the point quickly. That may well be effective for some artists, but others make far more striking and effective work by being ambiguous. Is the artist responsable for its audience's ignorance? Is the work useless and lacking in any direction at all? Is it the purpose for art to have a point? In which case when does it become art or pornography. We can only speculate I suppose.

Rob Instigator · 09.28.2007, 04:32 PM

a better question would be, if that same photograph was taken with adults, would you feel the same?

Washing Machine · 09.28.2007, 07:38 PM

The whole meaning of the piece would change I suppose. Is your question as to whether it would be pornographic Rob? I would say a pornographic work would be something that is meant to be arousing or erotic. Richard Kern for example. I think we can reasonably say that is not Goldin's purpose.

pbradley · 09.28.2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

did you guys know that the "comedian" Ghallagher has a twin brother and that he actually took over for Ghalagher for about 5 + years doing his show on the road? and noone could tell the difference? No lie.

Are you sure it was that no one could tell the the difference, or was it because nobody cared...

LifeDistortion · 09.29.2007, 12:30 AM

If you weren't the parent of those children the image can at first come off as uncomfortable, but if those two girls are sisters, this photo is the equivalant of parents taking pictures of thier kids playing in the bathtub. Every family I know has pictures of thier kids when they were babies playing in the bathtub, or just running around naked, hey most toddlers have a period in thier lives where they hate wearing clothes and would rather be naked. This is no different then that.

jon boy · 10.02.2007, 03:59 AM

the pictures have now been removed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7023055.stm

pbradley · 10.02.2007, 04:05 AM

Now that I've had time to consider it, the piece isn't so amazing to deserve the protests (maybe to some) and I don't exactly buy the slippery slope argument. So whatever.

10.02.2007, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washing Machine

The whole meaning of the piece would change I suppose. Is your question as to whether it would be pornographic Rob? I would say a pornographic work would be something that is meant to be arousing or erotic. Richard Kern for example. I think we can reasonably say that is not Goldin's purpose.

Her pictures are shit, controversy or not. How about that?

Rob Instigator · 10.02.2007, 09:14 AM

mappelthorpe?

Washing Machine · 10.04.2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Her pictures are shit, controversy or not. How about that?

Yeah. Controversy is often a subsitute for substance.

09.28.2007, 03:18 PM	#61
Washing Machine expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cardiff, Spiderland Posts: 1,465	Yes I think you are right. It the arrogance that is irritating __________________ ....Of Course its some kinda cosmic payback for being too ironic!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.28.2007, 03:27 PM	#62
alyasa invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,791	But, not to put too fine a point on it, arrogance is what most artists are accused of... I think this is definitely related somewhat to intellectual superiority, the whole complex of I am this, therefore I am better... __________________ Sab Kuch Tick Tock Hai
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.28.2007, 03:41 PM	#63
Washing Machine expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cardiff, Spiderland Posts: 1,465	Perhaps. But I personally respect people for their own individual knowledge. I like to learn from people, if someone knows something I don't, great i'll listen intently, try my best to learn, swim around in the subject and do my own research to get a better understanding. Somethings like Sport are of no interest to me. I never claim it is or enter into arguments with people who are clearly passionate. I just say I don't know. I like to see all the sides of a shape before I pass a judgement on what shape it is. I might well be wrong. But at least my opinion is informed to some degree. __________________ ....Of Course its some kinda cosmic payback for being too ironic!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.28.2007, 03:50 PM	#64
alyasa invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,791	Exactly, but insecurity is so rampant in this manufactured age, it's also impossible to claim you don't know anything about a subject. It seems every teenager and their kid brother would rather get in a fight than show their ignorance to others... __________________ Sab Kuch Tick Tock Hai
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.28.2007, 04:04 PM	#65
Washing Machine expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cardiff, Spiderland Posts: 1,465	I think its the recognition of what we don't know has always been important in advancing our progress. Its incredably important. No discussion ever goes anywhere when one party is utterly ignorant though. I really would hope people havent lost the ability tio put all the information on the table and come to a conclusion. Whilst at the same time recogizing that they may well not have all the infomation at the table and when it does come not be too arrogant as to not give the new information its proper recogition and amead that conclusion as they go along. That is the ideal of reason. __________________ ....Of Course its some kinda cosmic payback for being too ironic!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.28.2007, 04:07 PM	#66
alyasa invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,791	Most of what passes for discussion these days is nothing more than some form of showboating, mostly. I couldn't agree with your views more, there needs to be more 'open table' discourse to really get the ball rolling. Thank god for public forums... __________________ Sab Kuch Tick Tock Hai
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.28.2007, 04:25 PM	#67
Washing Machine expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cardiff, Spiderland Posts: 1,465	Thank God for the SY forum Its part of the reason I respect Nan Goldin for taking on taboo issues even if i'm not huge fan of the approach used. I guess people like their art to have clear meanings and to get to the point quickly. That may well be effective for some artists, but others make far more striking and effective work by being ambiguous. Is the artist responsable for its audience's ignorance? Is the work useless and lacking in any direction at all? Is it the purpose for art to have a point? In which case when does it become art or pornography. We can only speculate I suppose. __________________ ....Of Course its some kinda cosmic payback for being too ironic!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.28.2007, 04:32 PM	#68
Rob Instigator invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the land of the Instigator Posts: 27,961	a better question would be, if that same photograph was taken with adults, would you feel the same? __________________ RXTT's Intellectual Journey - my new blog where I talk about all the books I read.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.28.2007, 07:38 PM	#69
Washing Machine expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cardiff, Spiderland Posts: 1,465	The whole meaning of the piece would change I suppose. Is your question as to whether it would be pornographic Rob? I would say a pornographic work would be something that is meant to be arousing or erotic. Richard Kern for example. I think we can reasonably say that is not Goldin's purpose. __________________ ....Of Course its some kinda cosmic payback for being too ironic!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

09.29.2007, 12:30 AM	#71
LifeDistortion expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CA Posts: 2,457	If you weren't the parent of those children the image can at first come off as uncomfortable, but if those two girls are sisters, this photo is the equivalant of parents taking pictures of thier kids playing in the bathtub. Every family I know has pictures of thier kids when they were babies playing in the bathtub, or just running around naked, hey most toddlers have a period in thier lives where they hate wearing clothes and would rather be naked. This is no different then that.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

10.02.2007, 03:59 AM	#72
jon boy invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: psycho battery Posts: 12,161	the pictures have now been removed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7023055.stm __________________ Sarcasm[A] is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing \|@ <------- Euphoric brain cell just moments before expiration V _ \ / _ PING <-------- moments later / \ http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljhxq...isruo1_500.gif
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10.02.2007, 04:05 AM	#73
pbradley invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: SoKo Posts: 10,621	Now that I've had time to consider it, the piece isn't so amazing to deserve the protests (maybe to some) and I don't exactly buy the slippery slope argument. So whatever.
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10.02.2007, 09:14 AM	#75
Rob Instigator invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the land of the Instigator Posts: 27,961	mappelthorpe? __________________ RXTT's Intellectual Journey - my new blog where I talk about all the books I read.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|