[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Erm, just because you have hallucinated does not mean you have lost touch with the generally accepted reality. The ability to distinguish what you believe to be real and unreal i would think is more reflective of yr entire mental state. Psychosis compared to episodes etc.
I've unfort endured some unpleasant times with tactile, aural, and visual hallucinations not brought on by substance abuse.. I've always been aware of them happening, but also that more than likely they are not what everyone else is experiencing or that indeed they are coming from inside myself rather than outside.
Hmmm.
I'm a very spiritual person and i do belive in an interconnectedness of all things, but i also believe our minds have had plenty of time to evolve a state of consciousness that is generally on par with everyone else. I do believe that others see things in much the same way i do.. Perhaps interpreted slightly differently in terms of emotion, but not sensory wise..

my point in bringing up hallucinations are a common human experience which directly challenge the concept of an objective reality, and as floating keeps reiterated with out enough notice, is that current science largely agrees and predicts things far more surreal than any mystic or psychedelic.

Originally Posted by pbradley

What would you say to the claim that reality is unknowable and the known reality is not reality at all?

I'd say that is the truest wisdom. The less you know, the better you off you become. Human life is an experience, not a recapitulation of assumptions.

I stick to my statement. Reality is not objective, so it it being the figment of individual and mutually agreed imagination, then of course something like astral projection is easily possible. Again, if we are projecting our consciousness into our bodies where and as they 'exist' currently, why not be able to project consciousness elsewhere? And I agree with Floating, in the INFINITE universe, EVERYTHING is possible. It is not a matter of "If" it is a matter of "when"

[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by alteredcourse

Ni'k, I always kind of assumed that when people used astral projection, that what they were possibly doing was using that space in between sleep and awakeness that we both sometimes get, and pretty much just having hypnagogic hallucinations (which floaty defined so well).

It's a very good way of describing it.

Floatingslowly, beautiful words.

I believe I've had very intense out of body experiences without the use of drugs using solely meditation. It's amazing what your mind can do for your body. Since gaining some sort of peace within my own head, I've been able to use meditation as my 'daily drug' and it's a wonderful thing really. I focus less on astral projection in my meditations sober now than when having psychedelic experiences. '

I find the concept of focusing my energy towards peace and contentment during meditation to be very rewarding. I can lower my blood pressure and relieve anxiety with little effort. It's worth looking into, ni'k. It's a head space I feel you'd like, from our conversations. You're an incredibly intelligent person. The universe is yours.

[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I am cool with "astrl projection/OBE's" as a personal experience, as a means to explain what one's mind does sometimes, but I have yet to hear/read/see any actual real-world use of this that was not either a hoax, a delusion, a hallucination, etc.

if there is a divine "spirit" permeating the multi-verse, and if we are all ofshoots of this "spirit" then maybe astral projections and OBE's are just people describing their contact with the divine.

it's like how Uri Geller can conveniently bend metal when he feels like it, but cannot do so when the need arises for him to be a superhero or something, you know? "people's bad vibes are throwing off my power" and all that nonsense.

Interesting look on things, Rob. I often feel as though my meditations bring me to a somewhat spiritual nirvana.

[ni'k]

Originally Posted by HaydenAsche

It's a very good way of describing it.

Floatingslowly, beautiful words.

I believe I've had very intense out of body experiences without the use of drugs using solely meditation. It's amazing what your mind can do for your body. Since gaining some sort of peace within my own head, I've been able to use meditation as my 'daily drug' and it's a wonderful thing really. I focus less on astral projection in my meditations sober now than when having psychedelic experiences. '

I find the concept of focusing my energy towards peace and contentment during meditation to be very rewarding. I can lower my blood pressure and relieve anxiety with little effort. It's worth looking into, ni'k. It's a head space I feel you'd like, from our conversations. You're an incredibly intelligent person. The universe is yours.

my problem is that i have meditated before and expierienced massive difficulties arising from it, or at least from what i believed was going on at the time, but that's way too deep to go into now. i have been trying again recently more just to relax.

i did relaxation therapy once and achieved a similar state to when i first meditated, it was great, afterwards i was lying on a sofa curling up and moaning like a cat ha. it felt better than weed. i havent been able to do it the same since because i did it with an instructor, but i might try to find some audiobooks of it online and do it again.

it was basically lying on your back with your eyes closed listening to cheesy music while the instructor told you to stretch each part of your body and hold it till (which was very tense and painful) and then release it. afterwards it really did feel like the a good version of being stoned. altho the second time i tried it it wasn't as good.

there is a lot in this thread and the pm's from it that i have to read and go through more thoroughly but when i do i'll post about it again.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by Pookie

No they're not.

I am pretty sure of myself too

[floatingslowly]

I would like to reiterate that I do not claim to posssess the key to astral projection, nor do I think that anyone should try it.

it's simply that, once you start thinking of things as being "impossible", you've relegated yourself to history's dead-weight.

the universe is a beautiful place, full of unseen things that simply need finding.

science and rationality should be used as tools, not crutches.

[SONIC GAIL]

yr right bro

[Rob Instigator]

there is always another big bootie to slap

[SONIC GAIL]

what you talkin bout willis

[Rob Instigator]

your sig image/.gif makes me think you could use a vacation sonic gail!

[SONIC GAIL]

I do!!!!! I need one from me. I am trying to not be crazy...but i just feel crazier.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

if there is a divine "spirit" permeating the multi-verse, and if we are all ofshoots of this "spirit" then maybe astral projections and OBE's are just people describing their contact with the divine.

This is the central essence of Brahmanism and Vedic Hinduism, and also the very reason which I meditate/pray/vision quest/eat mushrooms

"We cannot borrow God.. We must effect His new incarnation from within ourselves. Divinity must descend, somehow, into the matter of our own existence and participate in this peculiar life-process.. The chief aim then of Indian thought is to unveil and integrate into consciousness what has thus been resisted and hidden by the forces of life and the supreme and characteristic achievement of the Brahman mind was its discovery of the Self (atman) as an independent, imperishable entity, underlying the conscious personality and bodily frame. Everything we normally know and express belongs to a sphere of change, the sphere of time and space, but this Self (atman) is forever changeless, beyond measure, beyond space and the veiling net of causality.." Heinrich Zimmer

Originally Posted by ni'k

my problem is that i have meditated before and expierienced massive difficulties arising from it, or at least from what i believed was going on at the time, but that's way too deep to go into now. i have been trying again recently more just to relax.

yr just moving to fast. the cosmic change of meditation takes a LIFETIME to "unveil and integrate" heightened spiritual awareness into the plane of our everyda so-called reality. Revelation comes in microseconds, the other millions of seconds fly by rather uneventful, but the the Epiphany of Eternity, while brief, transcends the limits of time. If you want to interconnect with Eternity, you are going to have slow down my brother. take yr time

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

well, Brian Greene's Elegant Universe is pretty basic stuff.

What do you think I am, dumb or something?

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

if you don't feel like reading, the pbs site has the series.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

Wow! Why don't they do a video version of every book? Save a lot of time.

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

if you feel like coming back and arguing my "Hawking radiation is a lie" theory, please let me know!

I've been waiting for what seems like an age for somebody to challenge me to a "Hawking radiation is a lie" punch up. The gloves are off!

This is all you need to know about the universe.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Pookie

What do you think I am, dumb or something?

 

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by Pookie

What do you think I am, dumb or something?

if I did, not only would I ignore you, I would never offer to explain anything further. it's not rocket surgery, but interest often leads toward comprehension.

there are plenty of people who are smarter than I am, who don't give a flying fuck about this stuff. I accept that and move on.

I believe strongly in certain types of paranormal events, but believe that they are only "paranormal" because they are so poorly understood.

Originally Posted by Pookie

I've been waiting for what seems like an age for somebody to challenge me to a "Hawking radiation is a lie" punch up. The gloves are off!

as I mentioned earlier, current quantum science requires "at least" 10 nearby dimensions. this is the minimum number, but it's suspected that the number is quite larger [inf.].

the fabric of space-time (which separates these dimensions) is thin, but extremely resilient. it will bend, sag and warp but rarely ever breaks. it is penetrated directly only by gravity and the smallest of particles (sub-Plank length).

gravity is caused by the "well" that each bit of matter creates. the more mass, the deeper the well and the greater chance for passing objects to "fall in". it is this warping of space, along with motion (you are currently moving at around 220 km/s along the galactic spur), that causes the perception of time.

Hawking radiation aka "Bekenstein-Hawking radiation" is an attempt to give black holes entropy (meaning, they're trying to explain why black holes don't gobble up the entire universe before disappearing).

Hawking's calculations for the release of "quantum gravity" require that the exiting particles fall below the Planck length before entering the event horizon.

THE PROBLEM: there is a point near the event horizon where time stops. an exiting particle of finite frequency would, at this point near the horizon, have infinite frequency and a wavelength greater than the Plank length.

MYTH: BUSTED

so, the "problem" is, you see, black holes DO NOT decay. all currently observed radiation has been from highly charged particles that barely escape the gravity well.

>>>>>>NOTHING GETS OUT<<<<<<

all black holes will "keep eating" until they reach the point where their total accretion rips open space-time and "burps" the compressed mass into a nearby (and virgin) universe.

this process continues back and forth, through "time", infinitely.

let there be light, my friend.

[floatingslowly]

LOL@CERN

please fucking BRING IT.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

rocket surgery,

I'd like to date a rocket surgeon.. he sounds interesting.

[floatingslowly]

every flight needs one when you fly long-haul.

many thanks and a thousand apologies to you, my constant friend. you have sat through (glazed over) more nut-job rants than should be allowed. and yes, I suppose I just gave Pookie page 1.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

many thanks and a thousand apologies to you, my constant friend. you have sat through (glazed over) more nut-job rants than should be allowed.

who is this at ?

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by phoenix

who is this at ?

the land down under.

edit: thank god for page 5.