Originally Posted by the ikara cult

As this thread seems to be a stairlift of noise references...
I only tried listening to "noise" because of reading people on this board, and its resulted in the following conclusions;

I absolutely love Ashtray Navigations and cant think of how i listened to music before hearing them

There are a couple of Whitehouse videos on youtube which are very visceral, a little ojectionable, and strikingly familiar.

Merzbow is admirable but still shit

Americans pressing buttons and screaming doesnt really work

Ashtray Navigations or even Astral Social Club to me are more psychedelic bands than anything. Yes there is noise/improv in their sound, sure, but it's all filtered through the sensibility of spaced out musicians, not that of noise circuit-benders and all that stuff.

Hey guess what? There is plenty of shit noise, poseurs, angry macho Americans making this type of music, so there are a lot of people who make a great job of it too. There are also plenty of people out there who make the sort of stuff you will appreciate better than noise (not referring to the ikara cult, just in general), so why bother so much with all this? Is it going to change your opinions? No, then move on.

[Savage Clone]

Good - "Check out these sounds that I have put a great deal of consideration and thought into making as a sonic expression of what is inside my heart and mind, needing to come out."

Bad - "Check out this thing I built!"

[uhler]

Originally Posted by batreleaser

Although, one thing I do prefer in my Noise is for the artists to make thier racket without any sort of pretense. Take Merzbow. Yeah, he's had some good records, but, there's just so much academia snobbery in his music, he's lacking that primal sleaze element that makes bands like the Velvets and the Stooges so damn eternal. Because of this, you'll rarely meet a big Noise fan who will say, "Merzbow is my favorite", for me, Merz is more a gateway artist than anything.

Then take Masonna. Though he is most oft-compared to Merzbow, Masonna is not content to sit behind a labtop and watch it makes loud noises. No way, he gets out on the floor, dances, hurts himself, and oozes rock n roll ferocity. His music is also exceptionally consistent, and is always ear seering loud and extreme.

Then of course there's Noise bands who rely more on shifting frequencies of sounds at atmosphere than pure aural chaos. I like those too. Like Filthy Turd and the 16 Bitch Pile Up LP.



Then,

i, also, prefer masonna over merzbow. i like noise just because it's something different and in a good way. i can't really describe what about it i like. when i'm tired of listening to rock and soul based music, i put on a noise record, cd or tape.

to the person who said name dropping underoath in a hardcore messageboard will get you cool points, i hope you were kidding. i would imagine name dropping that band would get you minus cool points on any messageboard that isn't called "christian emo kids unite".

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I pretty much agree, even though some directionless bullshit noise can occassionally be interesting too... but it's probably, technically, not "good" noise. It's hard to define "good", I guess. The problem with the noise scene, more than almost any other scene (except maybe prog rock), is trying to differentiate "good" from "Aesthetically pleasing". People in the noise scene seem to talk more about a cool idea than a truly great record -- "oh man, that guy recording himself clipping his fingernails through an effects pedal, this is an amazing record!" ... but, maybe it is. Just, whatever is interesting to listen to, whatever sparks your boner, etc.

Well, like any other type of music, there are those who have ever-evolving vision, and those who don't. Where Whitehouse are to me good-sounding sometimes, but ultimately leave me with the impression of a joke which has gone too far and isn't even funny, maybe because it draws life solely from provocation and representaion of pain/anguish, Merzbow tickles my interest in the most disparate ways, both visually and in terms of creating enthusiasm for stuff I didn't even think I'd have so much interest into, like elephants and their possible extintion, comics, Japanese doctors, black metal, sound artists, painters etc.

Also, his music doesn't so much present itself like a threat all the time, both in the way it sounds and the way it's composed, thought, and executed. My problem with certain noise is perhaps that it is too repetitive in intention, too unilateral in feeling, not just in the way it sounds, it's performed, or recorded.

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by Glice

Tristan Murail, Gerard Grisey, Kaija Sariaaho, Horatiu Radelescu - all names you should check out. I presume you're aware of Xenakis anyway.

thank you, i will check them out. (i know xenakis)

[lowlife]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

Good - "Check out these sounds that I have put a great deal of consideration and thought into making as a sonic expression of what is inside my heart and mind, needing to come out."

Bad - "Check out this thing I built!"

*ding*ding*ding*

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

Good - "Check out these sounds that I have put a great deal of consideration and thought into making as a sonic expression of what is inside my heart and mind, needing to come out."

Bad - "Check out this thing I built!"

Though I agree, you often don't have the artist available to tell you Anything. So you just have to go by the sounds.

[narlus]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

Though I agree, you often don't have the artist available to tell you Anything. So you just have to go by the sounds.

almost perfectly applies to the films of Mathew Barney

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

same with boring fuck phillip glass

Aww man. Glass is one of my favourite musicians. I personally find him to be incredible aha.

Of course, I'm not saying that there isn't turd in his discography... but I enjoy the majority of it.

[atsonicpark]

The sex act called fisting is a source of confusion and misconceptions for many Christians. This is unfortunate, because it means that many Christian men and women are depriving themselves of what could be the most spiritual sexual experience of their lives. Like anal sex and BDSM, fisting is often mistakenly associated with the gay community or is considered a sex act too extreme to be appropriate for Christian couples. Not only are these views incorrect, but fisting actually has a scriptural precedent, as we will show.
The Fist of Might
Over and over in the scriptures, the hand and fist of God are described as a symbol of His awesome power and the means through which this power manifests: "O God, God of our ancestors, are you not God in heaven above and ruler of all kingdoms below? You hold all power and might in your fist.” (2 Chronicles 20:6) Of course, the Old Testament often makes reference to God smiting his enemies with his fist or striking down the wicked with his hand, but it is also the means through which he administers his blessings and benevolence to the righteous: ”You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing.” (Psalms 145:16) Through the hand of the Lord, he guides us to do his will, touches our lives, expresses His love, and provides for our needs with His abundance.
The biblical significance of the hand is important, because in the act of fisting, one partner (usually male) inserts his entire hand and fist into the vagina or rectum of his partner. Rather than copulating with his penis, he penetrates her with his fist. Given the powerful symbolism of the fist, it is no surprise that couples who have partaken in the practice of fisting have described it as being a profoundly spiritual experience. On a symbolic and sexual level, a wife who is fisted by her husband has the experience of surrendering completely to the divine love and power of the Lord, as embodied by her partner’s hand. The husband in turn has the experience of touching and caressing her inwardly, in such a deep and intimate manner as God touches our own souls with His grace.
Powerful Yet Gentle
In the Song of Solomon, the Bible describes the act of fisting and the profound erotic bliss it induces: It is the voice of my beloved! He knocks, saying, "Open for me, my sister, my love, My dove, my perfect one”…My love thrust his hand through the opening, and my feelings were stirred for him. (Song of Solomon 5:2-4) Here we see the lover gently coaxing his companion to open up to him, metaphorically “knocking at her door,” preparing her sexually and emotionally to receive his hand inside her. Gradually he works more and more fingers into her, until the moment when her vagina yields and his hand slips fully inside her, thrusting “through the opening.” She then describes the powerful passion that this arouses in her as she envelopes his entire hand inside her body. Many couples describe this moment, as the fist makes full penetration into the vaginal opening, as transcendent and a sexual revelation. As the woman’s body accommodates her husband’s hand, both may experience a sense of physical, sexual, emotional, and spiritual oneness.
Some common misconceptions about fisting are that it is very painful or that it is somehow violent or abusive. This is far from the truth, and as we can see from the above description, it can be a gentle, loving, and highly erotic act. Fisting does not have to be painful if it is performed correctly, using enough lubrication and patience. The hand is inserted in a slow and controlled manner, and is preceded and followed by other sexual stimulation which may lead to orgasm. Both the vagina and the rectum are extremely elastic – a vagina, after all, can stretch to accommodate a full-term baby. And in fact, a woman who has been blessed with motherhood can more easily enjoy fisting because her vaginal opening is more flexible.
The act of fisting is physically challenging to perform, requiring patience on the part of the active partner, and relaxation on the part of the receiving partner. It cannot be rushed, and the two participants must communicate closely, with the fister carefully observing and attending to his partner’s comfort and limits, and the fistee directing her partner as to when to push forward and hold back as he works his hand into her. A Christian couple can use fisting to build trust and intimacy between them, as well as strengthening their relationship with the Lord.
Fisting as an Act of Faith
Before attempting fisting, a Christian husband and wife should pray together and ask for divine guidance. The husband should ask that God guide his hand and work through him, and for the skill and patience to fist his wife correctly and maximize her pleasure. The wife should pray for openness and readiness to receive God’s love and grace in the form of her husband’s hand.
Both should treat the act of fisting as a divine spiritual mystery to be entered into with reverence and awe, especially the husband. In another spiritual interpretation of fisting, as he inserts his hand into his wife’s vagina, a man is symbolically re-enacting the moment of truth following Christ’s resurrection from the tomb, when Doubting Thomas touches the wounds in the Savior’s flesh: Then He said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and observe My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Don't be an unbeliever, but a believer.” (John 20:27) Thomas’ doubt would not be satisfied until he physically felt the wounds in Christ’s body and penetrated His flesh with his hand. Likewise, the spiritual and sexual power of fisting cannot be known unless experienced physically.
Role Reversal
So far we have only discussed a husband fisting his wife, but some couples may wonder if it is appropriate for a wife to fist her husband if he enjoys anal stimulation. In most cases, a wife indulging her husband’s desire to receive light anal play is not problematic in the context of a healthy sexual relationship. A wife may even anally penetrate her partner with a strap-on dildo if he enjoys this, and if their respective roles as husband and wife are secure outside of the bedroom.
However, because of the intense nature of the act of fisting and the degree of surrender and submission involved in being fisted, a couple should first look deeply into their own hearts and pray for guidance as to whether it is wise for the wife to fist the husband. They should undertake this only if their relationship is such that the husband can assume a submissive and passive role during a sexual act, while afterward still maintaining his role as the spiritual head of the household and leader in the marriage.

[Derek]

My friend's band was horribly named Fighting Back Sorrow. So I started calling them Fisting Back Sorrow. Sadly it started to stick so they changed their name soon after haha.

[atsonicpark]

 

vs.

 

[atsonicpark]

 

 

 

 

[noisereductions]

Do I know how to start a thread, or huwhat?

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

 

OH MY FUCKING GAWD

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I'd much prefer a band put out 12 perfect songs every 3 years than the piles and piles of regurgitated crap that wolf eyes keeps putting out.

Right? I mean, can somebody say they like one Wolf Eyes album over the other? Can they even tell the difference between the two without first memorizing the minor differences? Wolf Eyes could easily just hit record, make noise all day, and chop it up into half hour segments and have enough records for a year. Or maybe the next three months anyways.

[noisereductions]

The only Wolf Eyes album I really like (and can recognize) is SLICER, because of the tape splices/loops.

[Green Magnesium]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

why do you people want to like noise?

if it's not your cup of tea, stop trying.

I'm pretty much at that point. I seriously cannot get into any of the "noise" artists that have been recommended to me.

Merzbow, Wolf Eyes, Boredoms, Nurse with Wound... are either downright unbearable (former two) or uninteresting (latter two).

That's probably why it bugs me so much when people describe bands like Mars, Sonic Youth or DNA as "noise", when they're really just noise-y. The same people would probably have an aneurism if they ever actually heard real "noise."

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by afterthefact

Right? I mean, can somebody say they like one Wolf Eyes album over the other?

Yes. I significantly like Human Animal more than anything else I've heard by them. Great record. There might be others I'd like that much, but I haven't found it yet.

When I saw them open for Sonic Youth, I thought they were really pretty boring for all of the interesting equipment they had to work with. Given how much I like that particular record (which came out after the show I saw), I get the feeling they're actually pretty hit and miss, which is the opposite of the "all sounds the same" riff you are selling.

[afterthefact]

Well I guess we all hear what we want to hear, but it does pretty much all sound the same. I don't mean that you can't maybe pick out one record that you really like over all of the others, but, unlike other bands with large discographies (i.e. Sonic Youth), you couldn't listen to a "song" off of each record and list for each the album it was from. At least I couldn't. Maybe you are magic, who knows.