[Green_mind]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

The concept of Devil = bad and God.

true, true.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by sellouteater

when you think about it the devil is the god guy. The devil has never flooded the whole earth, starved millions of peole, and demanded that everyone worship him. Satan is said to be so charming you would think that hes god, sounds like a nice guy to me. Religion is a terrible thing. I believe in being a good person and think most people do but lies about saviors have nothing to do about it. The leader of the churches are notorois for currption, rascism, and child molstation what does that tell you. religion scares people into thinking they a love a liar ego freak named jesus christ. PLEASE WAKE UP.

i was going to rip this to shreds, but i think an "lol" will suffice.

i bet your world would be shattered if you found out that regina spektor was a dedicated roman catholic, huh?

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

there no disputing evolution. evolution doesnt proove an absence of god. matter of factly, and intelligent god would only make us in such a way that we can evolve, adapt to our surrounding...etc.

evolution, likewise, doesnt necessarily proove there is a god.

beautiful.

[deathbyfeedback]

"if god did not exist, man would find it neccessary to create him"

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i think its pretty safe to say though, like cops, most christians certainly come off as being idiots.

I can agree with this. I remember a long time ago when I was a teenager who went to a youth group and church, there were only 2-3 people who I could really talk to. One of them was the pastor who you know actually went through college and studied theology and greek and philosophy and was decently well-read. Most of the other people there I considered idiots.

But then again, most of the people I've met I've considered an idiot at one time or another. I even think I'm an idiot sometimes.

[cuetzpalin]

the thread title reminded me this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4nRNYG_xM2U

[ZEROpumpkins]

Hey thread starter, right on.

[Rob Instigator]

you are right

[racehorse]

Originally Posted by sellouteater

first off i didnt mean to be a bully or a bigot i was just a little excited. what i meant to say is theres a lot of holes in relgion. and religion is the reason for a lot of bad shit i.e. sept 11, holocaust, crusades in the middle ages hate crimes. my other piont is that there is very little legitmate truth to there being a savior and if there was why would he let all this happen to the human race. I have a question for all the religios people if there wasn't the fear of hell and the promises of heaven would you care even half as much about god as you do now.

you come across as pretty ignorant on this thread, to be honest.
firstly, of course there are holes in religion just as there are holes in everything if you want there to be. everybody knows that, and you pointing it out is just superfluous.

what you are forgetting, however, is that the drive to construct a god (or gods) is a completely natural and essentially instinctive thing for humans to do.
as a species we are desperate for answers and definitive explanations, and, as a society, we manifest explanations to satisfy ourselves. this has been going on since the beginning of humankind. it is a necessity for society. the need for a God/Gods to worship, appease, justify and project ourselves onto is instinctive. therefore, incoherant arguments that demean religion for what has happened as an (indirect) result of it is really quite meaningless and can be ignored on the basis that there is nothing anybody can do to stop it. if the need for a God had never existed humans would create other ways to justify persecuting each other.
it's not religion to blame, but humans.

[floatingslowly]

I would say that I'm spiritual, but not religious. I think that everyone is going to experience spirituality different and so most major religions have no appeal to me.

that said....I think it's poor form to belittle other's beliefs. I don't pretend to have all the answers.

I get into arguements with my wife's anti-christian attitudes all the time. her logic fails her and becomes hypocracy the moment she starts pushing her lack of faith onto others. in the "bible-belt" of america, quite a few people are hyper-evangelistic and this turns her off.

I insist that her vehement disbelief is no better / different than what she receives from "the other side".

it all boils down to lack of tolerance, and THAT is against my religion (whatever that is).

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by sellouteater

thanx for the cookie see you in hell

where???

--


about the debate that seemingly ensued:

i hope i did not offend anyone with my public statement of religious disbelief. i was only trying to point out to sellout eater, who apparently was high while writing all his rants, that it's a bit absurd to be an atheist who believes in satan. (if that is in fact what he did-- frankly i could not understand his post.)

now, i am sure if someone came out in public & said "i just found god and my life is so much better for it", people would come out of the woodwork to congratulate them and express their support. so i don't see why we can't do the same when someone finds "there is no god." same deal, goes both ways.

just a couple of points to bring up for general discussion:

i was raised catholic, and later rejected christianity in general, i have to say i'm ambivalent about the role of religion in human life. i also went to school to study science (and left it for other pastures but likes to keep current on the subject).

from this my own perspective, i am very ambivalent about the role of religion; i probably lean towards the negative perspective, and here is why:

i agree with racehorse that there is a religious instinct. is it a function of the cognitive system to deal with the unknown, or with information overload? is it some kind of organ/function that responds to the existence of something real like the eye evolved as a response to light? i have no idea, and though i lean towards the former, some other days i consider the latter as a possibility.

like all instincts, i respect mine, and i have to say there is a "spiritual" dimension to my life, as there is to all human lives, because we all have the religious instinct. i have mine but i don't like to discuss it in public.

however necessary or beneficial the religious instinct, it can certainly be misused, exploited, as perverted, just like other instincts-- sex, hunger, the need to belong to a group, whatever. and just like our hunger instinct has transformed the world into a giant fast-food factory, i fear that our religious instinct has been exploited for milennia by charlatans, social manipulators, fanatics, extremists, and sociopaths.

another thing i have to say: humans are also the bearers of a moral instinct. this moral instinct is conflated with the religious instinct, but do not for a second think that without religion we'd descend to the realm of beasts. we can be beasts with or without religion, often we become beasts with the help of religion-- the more rigid and authoritarian the sytem, the greatest its capacity for atrocities.

in general, what i detest about religion is the social control aspect (some would say it's a good, "civilizing" force), and the authoritarian aspect that accompanies it, which makes people prone to atrocities and barbarity "in the name of god". and beyond that, the rigidity of repressive religious moral codes that are fundamentally against life and nature and cause more pain than they are meant to relieve. i think that religion can be a very negative force also that keeps people from adapting to the future. and as we know, adaptation is esssential for our survival.

there are some aspects of some religions that i like, but currently i can't find one thatallows me to agree wholeheartely with it.

these are just some general outlines that i'd be happy to discuss in greater detail later.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Well, we all know you'll be in the 9th circle !@#$%!. So he'll see you on his way to the 3rd or 4th. (I'm just going by his name, 3rd is for gluttons, 4th is for those consumed by material goods- sellouts)

[Rob Instigator]

I just hate lies/hypocrisy. religion does not exist without a core of lies/hypocrisy which the follower is supposed to believe is true. they call it dogma.

I am ANTI-THEIST.

I believe the world would be a better place with NO rleigion or spirituality of any kind. I call ALL of it SUPERSTITION.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by sellouteater

when you think about it the devil is the god guy. The devil has never flooded the whole earth, starved millions of peole, and demanded that everyone worship him. Satan is said to be so charming you would think that hes god, sounds like a nice guy to me. Religion is a terrible thing. I believe in being a good person and think most people do but lies about saviors have nothing to do about it. The leader of the churches are notorois for currption, rascism, and child molstation what does that tell you. religion scares people into thinking they a love a liar ego freak named jesus christ. PLEASE WAKE UP.

Abuse of religion for selfish pursuits no more invalidates religion than drunk driving invalidates transportation or rape and incest invalidate lovemaking.

You need to wake up and separate the apples from the oranges.

[atsonicpark]

Sasha Grey Said That She Worshipped Cock

But She's An Existentialist!

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

Religion is what you do with it. Nothing is inherently evil. .

oh I don't know about that, how about viruses genetically engineered to only infect specific ethnic groups?

How about child rape? Isn't that inherently evil? No? ok, what about BABY RAPE?

I'd say religion is all about social control and preservation of the State.

[sellouteater]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i hope i did not offend anyone with my public statement of religious disbelief. i was only trying to point out to sellout eater, who apparently was high while writing all his rants, that it's a bit absurd to be an atheist who believes in satan. (if that is in fact what he did-- frankly i could not understand his post.).

the satan thing didnt mean anything i was just baked, but i am an atheist. We could argue about relgion for hours and get no where so i'm done with my rants for now.

[Rob Instigator]

the Nazis were christians, wholly supported by the Holy Roman Catholic Church. I get so upset when revisionists talk about how they were godless atheists. While the personal relgious beliefs of der Fuhrer are in question, the official belief of the National Socialist party was Roman catholicism.

The so called Soviet athiests actually used atheism to hide behind as they wrested power from the Russian Orthodox Church.

I would venture to bet that maybe 40% of all US Presidents are either agnostics or outright atheists, but to say so in the USA is a political death wish.

[Trasher02]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I believe the world would be a better place with NO rleigion or spirituality of any kind. I call ALL of it SUPERSTITION.

Why? Most religions are based upon good manners and good thoughts. I don't mind people who believe in god it's their choice and I just think it's rubbish and choose not to believe in it.

Hip Priest and luxinterior said the best things on this thread, and that's from my entirely atheist point of view. Don't like God? Don't bother with him, then. I respect one's belief for as long they respect mine, and as I posted on another thread, I have a parent who's a devoted catholic and a fantastic person, parent or not.