[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Antagon

Man, this is not looking good. It was Biden versus a belligerent buffoon who didn't even care to hide his buffoonery anymore, safe for unconvincingly stating his disinfectant injection comment earlier this year had been "sarcastic". Trump didn't do himself any favors with this lack of a performance. But that's actually what worries me. In line with what Soup Nazi stated above: The dotard has hinted time and time again at the possibility, that he may not accept the results of the election if they are not in his favor. There's this sinking feeling that what the world witnessed yesterday was a man who doesn't care anymore. Why would he have no reason to care? Possibly because he seems to think he won't leave office no matter what? I mean, this shit was worrying way way before yesterday's pathetic display. But it certainly seemed to put a definite stamp on all the worries that have been festering over time. Shit, he ain't even dogwhistling anymore, all of his bigotry came with a humungous sign that said "Here, look at me, I'm out in the open". At this point, does it matter if Biden wipes the floor with him during the election, when there's a good chance Trump's gonna exploit a broken system to his advantage again? Frightening thought I tell ya, frightening thought.

I'd forgotten how bad Trump is in these kinds of situations. But I was quickly reminded how, as terrible as he was overall in those debates with Hillary, where, even as I became increasingly unsympathetic towards her, his only real stand out moment (albeit a massive one) was his, "because you'd be in jail" line. There was nothing as perfectly timed or delivered as that last night. But more than that, I thinkTrump's real problem is that while people may question lots of things about Biden, they don't instinctively dislike him the way so many did when it came to Hillary. I actually thought Biden did really well last night: keeping his head and never succumbing to the gaffes many expected (hopefully from Trump's side, fearfully on the side of the Dems). He was the level-headed centrist throughout and definitely forced Trump to go on the defensive.

While I suspect that neither would have converted anyone already set on their support for one or the other I'd definitely give this round to Biden. Trump's strongest moment IMO was where he called out antifa, but that isn't something I'd see Biden as being synonymous with. His blows there would've landed far harder had they been aimed at someone like AOC or Ilhanan Omar but nobody realistically equates Biden (or Kamala Harris for that matter) with any kind of far Left stormtrooper organisation. This even made Trump's attack on Biden's position on law and order (who history tells us is far from 'progressive') fall flat, especially with Biden himself killing it outright with his support of it and denunciation of the whole 'defund the police' thing. In the end, his best line of attack from Trump was that Biden simply hadn't achieved much during all his years in politics. True, maybe .... maybe ... but hardly a mic drop.

I want Trump to win but I think Biden may, in spite of my early thoughts, be his absolutely worst kind of opponent. Not because I think he's an especially strong candidate but, on the contrary, because he's actually such a mediocre one who forces the spotlight onto Trump and his evident weaknesses. Trump would've been far more affective against a more divisive figure like Kamala Harris, but Biden, at worst, just seems like the slightly embarassing grandad who you send to bed before they really start to get out of hand. And we all have a soft for those, even when they're serving as a distraction from something far worse.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I want Trump to win

why do you wish us dead??

[h8kurdt]

Mate...

Actually doubly glad Everton are beating West Ham right now.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Mate...

Actually doubly glad Everton are beating West Ham right now.

3-1! i'm a new fan lmao

[The Soup Nazi]

http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/sho...postcount=9291

Unless I'm missing a very weak attempt at sarcasm, this post needs to go. Disgusting horseshit is not a "differing opinion".

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Antagon

In line with what Soup Nazi stated above: The dotard has hinted time and time again at the possibility, that he may not accept the results of the election if they are not in his favor. There's this sinking feeling that what the world witnessed yesterday was a man who doesn't care anymore. Why would he have no reason to care? Possibly because he seems to think he won't leave office no matter what? I mean, this shit was worrying way way before yesterday's pathetic display. But it certainly seemed to put a definite stamp on all the worries that have been festering over time. Shit, he ain't even dogwhistling anymore, all of his bigotry came with a humungous sign that said "Here, look at me, I'm out in the open". At this point, does it matter if Biden wipes the floor with him during the election, when there's a good chance Trump's gonna exploit a broken system to his advantage again? Frightening thought I tell ya, frightening thought.

Opinion piece by Tom Friedman in The New York Times:

Trump Sent a Warning. Let’s Take It Seriously.

Our democracy is in terrible danger — more than since the Civil War, more than after Pearl Harbor, more than during the Cuban missile crisis.


President Trump has made it unmistakably clear in recent weeks — and even more crystal clear at the Tuesday debate —that there are only two choices before voters on Nov. 3 — and electing Joe Biden is not one of them.

The president has told us in innumerable ways that either he will be re-elected or he will delegitimize the vote by claiming that all mail-in ballots — a time-honored tradition that has ushered Republicans and Democrats into office and has been used by Trump himself — are invalid.

Trump’s motives could not be more transparent. If he does not win the Electoral College, he’ll muddy the results so that the outcome can be decided only by the Supreme Court or the House of Representatives (where each state delegation gets one vote). Trump has advantages in both right now, which he has boasted about for the past week.

I can’t say this any more clearly: Our democracy is in terrible danger — more danger than it has been since the Civil War, more danger than after Pearl Harbor, more danger than during the Cuban missile crisis and more danger than during Watergate.

I began my career as a foreign correspondent covering Lebanon’s second civil war, and it left a huge impact on me. I saw what happens in a country when everything becomes politics, when a critical mass of politicians put party before country, when responsible people, or seemingly responsible people, think that they can bend or break the rules — and go all the way — and that the system won’t break.

But when extremists go all the way, and moderates just go away, the system can break. And it will break. I saw it happen.

I would like to think that such a thing could not happen in America. I’d like to think that … but I am very, very worried.

I worry because Facebook and Twitter have become giant engines for destroying the two pillars of our democracy — truth and trust. Yes, these social networks have given voice to the voiceless. That is a good thing and it can really enhance transparency. But they have also become huge, unedited cesspools of conspiracy theories that are circulated and believed by a shocking — and growing — number of people.

These social networks are destroying our nation’s cognitive immunity — its ability to sort truth from falsehood.

Without shared facts on which to make decisions, there can be no solutions to our biggest challenges. And without a modicum of trust that both sides want to preserve and enhance the common good, it is impossible to accomplish anything big.

“Politics needs a reference point outside of politics,’’ argues the Hebrew University religious philosopher Moshe Halbertal. “It needs values, it needs facts and it needs leaders who respect that there is a sacred domain of decisions that will never be used to promote political gain, only the common good.’’

Public trust is eroded, added Halbertal, when people feel that this notion of the common good doesn’t exist because everything has become politics. That describes the United States today. The institutions we have relied upon to be outside the game of politics so as to adjudicate what is right and true — scientists, certain news media, the courts — have become so ensnared by politics that fewer and fewer of them are universally trusted to define and pursue the common good. Even mask-wearing has become partisan.

You cannot sustain a healthy democracy under such conditions.

And that is why the only choice in this election is Joe Biden. The Democrats are not blameless when it comes to playing politics, but there is no equivalence to the Republicans. The Democratic Party sorted through all the choices, and, led by older Black men and women in South Carolina, rejected the Democratic socialist candidate and said they wanted a moderate unifier named Joe Biden.

The Republicans — who in the past voted for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, sane conservatives who could be counted upon to uphold the common good — have done no such equivalent thing. They have fallen in line lock step behind a man who is the most dishonest, dangerous, meanspirited, divisive and corrupt person to ever occupy the Oval Office. And they know it. Four more years of Trump’s divide and rule will destroy our institutions and rip the country apart.

To me, the only hope for America is to elect Biden and split the G.O.P. between the Trumpists and whatever is left of the moderate Republicans, and then hope that a big center-left and small center-right can agree on enough things to propel the country forward, heal the divide and act together for the common good.

Admittedly, Biden did not particularly shine in tonight’s debate. Alas, I have never seen him shine in any debate. But I have no doubt that the people, values and integrity he would bring into government would be of a quality that the nation deserves.

If Trump’s monstrous performance left you feeling that you want four more years of his presidency — that he will respect the outcome of the election if it goes against him, that he will reunite the country, that he will do the presidency proud and surround himself with people of the quality that the country deserves — then you and I were watching different debates.

To get back a semblance of unity and sanity, Biden has to win. And that is why I have only one answer to every question now: Vote for Biden — do it by mail early if you must, but if you can, please, put on a mask and do it in person. If enough of us do that, Biden can win outright with the votes cast on Election Day, instead of waiting for all the mail-in ballots to be counted, thereby giving time for Trump and Fox News to muddy the outcome.

So help register someone to vote for Joe Biden. Phone bank for Joe Biden. Talk to your neighbor about Joe Biden. Volunteer for Joe Biden. Drive someone to the polls to vote for Joe Biden.

Do it as if your country’s democracy depends on it, because it does.

[The Soup Nazi]

Chris Wallace Calls Debate ‘a Terrible Missed Opportunity’

The veteran anchor conceded he was initially “reluctant” to step in during the Trump-Biden matchup. “I’ve never been through anything like this,” he said.

“I never dreamt that it would go off the tracks the way it did."

Really? Have you not watched the fuckin' news over the past five years, Chris? What a mook.

[Nevermind]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Unless I'm missing a very weak attempt at sarcasm, this post needs to go. Disgusting horseshit is not a "differing opinion".

admit Hillary's book is fucking creepy, at the very least

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Nevermind

admit Hillary's book is fucking creepy, at the very least

So no sarcasm. Oh, Hillary is creepy? Go post pictures of female genitalia on Parler and get the hell out of here forever, dickhead.

 

[choc e-Claire]

Two questions: where, and why?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Unless I'm missing a very weak attempt at sarcasm, this post needs to go. Disgusting horseshit is not a "differing opinion".

You're starting to sound like some kind of cult member. You obviously hate Trump but getting triggered like this when someone hints at weird goings on within the Washington elite makes no sense to me. In a choice between Stalin and Hitler I'd probably go Stalin. I wouldn't deny the existence of gulags though.

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

You're starting to sound like some kind of cult member. You obviously hate Trump but getting triggered like this when someone hints at weird goings on within the Washington elite makes no sense to me. In a choice between Stalin and Hitler I'd probably go Stalin. I wouldn't deny the existence of gulags though.

Almost like...qanon?

Given that there's been zero solid evidence of "weird goings on" I'll err on the side of caution.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

You're starting to sound like some kind of cult member. You obviously hate Trump but getting triggered like this when someone hints at weird goings on within the Washington elite makes no sense to me. In a choice between Stalin and Hitler I'd probably go Stalin. I wouldn't deny the existence of gulags though.

Rrriiiight, that's what's in front of us, a choice between Hitler and Stalin... "Weird goings on"... Christ on a stick, this place it's a bottomless pit sometimes.

[!@#$%!]

it’s sad to see old friends seduced by fascists. god fucking damn...

what am i doing on this board i almost don’t know anymore...

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

it’s sad to see old friends seduced by fascists. god fucking damn...

what am i doing on this board i almost don’t know anymore...

We're here because of Sonic Youth, a band that was, among many other great things, left-leaning and anti-fascist.

What the fuck are THEY doing here.

[Antagon]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

What the fuck are THEY doing here.

And what the fuck has been done to them? It never ceases to baffle me how someone who enjoys the music of a band that so obviously wears their collective hearts on their sleeves can turn into the followers of such vile demagogues. Just as much as it baffles me how "Women For Trump" is a thing.

Is it compartmentalization? Only caring about the sound and not the messages behind it? I mean, some are undoubtedly only here to troll and it stopped being about proper discourse amongst fans of a certain band a long time ago. With others, I'm not so sure this is their sole MO. But it is confounding to say the least.

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by Antagon

And what the fuck has been done to them? It never ceases to baffle me how someone who enjoys the music of a band that so obviously wears their collective hearts on their sleeves can turn into the followers of such vile demagogues. Just as much as it baffles me how "Women For Trump" is a thing.

Is it compartmentalization? Only caring about the sound and not the messages behind it? I mean, some are undoubtedly only here to troll and it stopped being about proper discourse amongst fans of a certain band a long time ago. With others, I'm not so sure this is their sole MO. But it is confounding to say the least.

I’m guessing those that troll probably have multiple accounts???

Funny thing Antagon, I’m far less concerned with who you or anyone else here at SYG has voted for than I am with how you (SYG members) treat the people that vote differently than you.

Compartmentalization works both ways!

How can you and other SYG members continue to listen to “music with a message,” yet sit idly by, never calling anyone out for cussing and harassing a few who have a differing vote or opinion than you?

Keep fighting the good fight, Antagon!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Antagon

Is it compartmentalization? Only caring about the sound and not the messages behind it? I mean, some are undoubtedly only here to troll and it stopped being about proper discourse amongst fans of a certain band a long time ago. With others, I'm not so sure this is their sole MO. But it is confounding to say the least.

i think nobody was ever going to agree on everything here, but the way things have gone off the deep end these last years is... not unprecedented, because we know 20th century history, but still a shock.

e.g., i used to think beauregard was just nice guy who maybe was a bit simple in his conceptualizations, but nope... there's a malicious core underneath his smarmy pretense.

[The Soup Nazi]

Voter supression as fuck in Texas:

 

[Antagon]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i think nobody was ever going to agree on everything here, but the way things have gone off the deep end these last years is... not unprecedented, because we know 20th century history, but still a shock.

I hear ya. It is indeed worrying.

Originally Posted by =!@#$%!

e.g., i used to think beauregard was just nice guy who maybe was a bit simple in his conceptualizations, but nope... there's a malicious core underneath his smarmy pretense.

I certainly don't take him for someone just here to troll. I do believe he's in some way trying to get confused/uncertain people on his side. I've been seeing a few more voices in support of, or at least not completely averse to Trump on that board as of late. While I don't think there's one factor that's the cause of that (each person has their own story to tell and most of us live in completely different parts of the world), there's no denying that if you continually take part in an enduring discourse, you certainly influence that discourse in one way or another. He has that pretense of a polite, humble participant in a broader conversation that is marked by sheer "differences of opinion", whilst circulating harmful/untrue conspiracy theories and dog-whistles. And I think it's important to see through that veneer. Completely with ya on that.