[Glice]

Originally Posted by ni'k

im not so stupid as to think theres a need for some moralising generalisation against transexualism. it's basically a consumer scam that involves body mutilation. a form of body art, like those tribes that put stones in their tongues. notions of what male and female are are false, so you can't change into what doesn't exist. unless you were to grow new parts from stem cells and have them transplanted onto your body and then go through all the hormone therapy and stuff.

Right, I read this in your bleeding heart radical cunt mode. Judging by the content, it's actually in your trolling mode. Either way, it's utter bullshit. I'm sure Aaarg has Judy 'god I love her' Butler on there. And Sandy Stone, Irigaray, Cixious and whatever. Go read them. But don't read Kristeva. I love her too much to read you wanking all over her.

[knox]

Like I said, gender roles are overdone by culture. But the fact that there is gender (or the fact that people have different levels of hormones and whatever) and gender identity "disorder" is undeniable.

People change completely when they start taking hormones. Woman are godknowshowmilliontimes more likely to sleep with someone when they are ovulating (remind me not to go to shitty clubs). Violent people tend to have abnormally high levels of testosterone.

If that's not gender I don't know what it is. Of course I have no fucking idea what could possibly cause gender identity issues - I suppose no one does. And of course gender does not necessarily relate to sexuality.

I might care a bit too much about shoes because society made me, but I don't pretend pms. I mean, did you know if I stab someone during pms I get less jail time? So, yeah, remember that.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by ni'k

im not so stupid as to think theres a need for some moralising generalisation against transexualism. it's basically a consumer scam that involves body mutilation. a form of body art, like those tribes that put stones in their tongues. notions of what male and female are are false, so you can't change into what doesn't exist. unless you were to grow new parts from stem cells and have them transplanted onto your body and then go through all the hormone therapy and stuff.

In all likely hood, there's not a soul out there that doesn't have something about themselves that they wish they could change. If for some this amounts to having a gender-related operation, and they have the funds to do so, more power to them. Wouldn't go as far as to call it a "consumer scam", as such an extreme operation wouldn't exist had there not been, in the beginning, a desire for it. Same goes for any sort of body art. These tribes you speak of are not actually paying to have stones put into their tongues, and originally, no one was paying for tattoos, either. Perhaps "consumer scams" have over the course of time been worked into the equation. It's like that with most anything, though.

I can agree that a "sex change" does not truly amount to the changing of one's sex, which is something I think most would agree with me on, but there are those that feel as if after such an operation they are owed the respect of being treated as whatever given sex they feel as if they have become. It's not a fair thing to be expected out of anyone. Just like it's not fair for a homosexual to continuously pursue someone that is not, or for the straight to continuously pursue the uninterested.

But then again, I know all to well that what is fair, and what is natural, do not always go hand in hand. But this is despite the fact.

I remember reading a story some time ago about a pre-op that started dating this guy. She refused to offer him anything other than oral sex, which I am sure is something that confused him a bit. One day while she was out, he had some urge to plunder through her things...+ after discovering a passport and several other items that proved she was anything other than what she presented herself as, he killed her (or technically..."him"). A sad thing, yes, and in no way do I think his actions were justified...except for the fact...that he'd been deceited into pursuing something that he would not have pursued had he been given the truth @ the beginning of the relationship. But still, this is one case to where killing should not have been OK, and it wasn't (thankfully, he's in jail). I know there is nothing isolated about this particular case, either, as it is something that has happened numerous times.

[the ikara cult]

Ive met more conservative gay men than liberal gay men, in terms of quantity

[ni'k]

Originally Posted by Glice

Right, I read this in your bleeding heart radical cunt mode. Judging by the content, it's actually in your trolling mode. Either way, it's utter bullshit. I'm sure Aaarg has Judy 'god I love her' Butler on there. And Sandy Stone, Irigaray, Cixious and whatever. Go read them. But don't read Kristeva. I love her too much to read you wanking all over her.

well that's just a clearly explained argument you made there glice. when you are finished name dropping like some snide "radical cunt" do you want to explain what you disagree with or not?

[knox]

Well, I know for sure gender identity confusion is very much real, and it is just that way and people suffer from it since they are born. Science accepts it and I'm sure they will come up with an explanation soon, which hopefully will make their lives better by making people more accepting.

It existed way before surgeries did - so it doesn't make much sense to call it some sort of consumerist urge. Now, there'll be crazy people (like the person in the link I posted) with other problems (like BDD perhaps, or simply "insane") who'll undergo surgery for whatever reason but the right one.

That's why they generally have psychological scanning and stuff, but in his/her case being a millionaire probably allowed him to skip this stage.

[knox]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Ive met more conservative gay men than liberal gay men, in terms of quantity

you've been going to the wrong places and talking to the wrong people? i hope. please say yes.

[Genteel Death]

 

[knox]

BNP Event Announcement: Empowering Neighborhoods and Restoring Outdoor Play

[ni'k]

lol

its fun to watch the bnp implode.

big hype during the elections: "oh noes! bnp are more popular than they've ever been, even more popular than early 90's! picking up loads of seats!"

then unite against fascism went out and anti electioneered for them. went door knocking and strategically mobilised the vote to get otherwise abstaining people to go out and vote for ANYONE as long as it wasnt the bnp.

they got trounced, and now there is an inner civil war, because the working class contingent (like 90%) of them are sick of posho griffin and his aristocratic wannabe establishment ways.

so all the crazy men waiting in the wings with their alex jones videos posted on their blogs are due to oust him and send the party back to oblivion were it belongs.

i've said before the obvious point about how the bnp are basically the only party who give a shit about the working classes (ok socialists do to but even they are off puttingly bourgeios and disconnected from the really impoverished areas a lot of the time). problem with this situation is the bnp are able to provide easy answers that mobilise the poor with politics that have a certain "dignity" and easy appeal to patriotism.

anyway the eu beaurocrats are trying to take the party down in court by invoking all these rules about membership discrimination (not because they give a shit, its completely politically motivated and an attempt to use the law to attack them) which is something i fully support.

you have to fight fire with fists in this case.

keep them tied up with court battles and legal fees.

[knox]

it's just funny how certain people switch so easily.

from where i'm standing it's funny that the bnp even exists, it'd be considered illegal in many places.

[ni'k]

i don't know how much of a good thing that is tho. (that it would be considered illegal)

i mean whats actually needed is a leftist working class movement. a party that targets the same people and same areas that the bnp does.

a state that would outlaw the bnp might be just as quick to outlaw a far leftist party.

no no, better to let them operate, but SABOTAGE their operations. but not by outright banning them and giving them the power of self righteous victimisation, making it look like you have something to be afraid of. no, you let them run but you interfere, never let them get off the ground, step in here and there, mess up things. monitor them, infiltrate if needs be. muddle and confuse them. waste their time, its not hard, you just throw in a few either controversial or misinformed comments to misdirect things.

the american far right and republican party knows how to fucking do this right. i'll give them that. its not just paranoia talking. read them closely enough and in the right places. because they actually albeit misguidedly believe in their own crap they feel entitled to win using any tactics possible. so they will openly discuss how to shut down liberal debate by infiltrating message boards for example and spreading counter propaganda but doing it pretending to be a liberal. they know that the best way to paralyze your enemy on this terrain is to muddle it, to confuse it, to waste its time in endless debate, to troll it subtley, to sow divisions within.

fuck, think how fun this would be. if only the state would pay me to do it. well, at least i already do in teslas mind, because you know what a dangerous radical he is and how important it is to stop him from blowing our nefarious schemes.

but the right already really do this. on places like democraticunderground.com they do it and have been caught out. i mean i've read them on their right wing blogs discussing these tactics.

thats on small scale, on the larger scale you have your karl roves and your fox news. same type of tactics tho - we don't give a shit about playing by the rules. so its kind of redundant to chase after them all the time demanding better standards of them. they dont care in the first place! they only pretend to have any kind of standards at all. fight dirty or you end up with obama and then they get back into power.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by ni'k

well that's just a clearly explained argument you made there glice. when you are finished name dropping like some snide "radical cunt" do you want to explain what you disagree with or not?

You were implying - were you not - that transexualism is some sort of lie of consumerism? There's no doubt that society creates consumerist answers to its own failings. But to dismiss the troubled area of gender-identity as a societally-created, capitalist re-inscription of bivalent gender association-through-capital is just... weak. You have a point, but in your clamour for some sort of radical opposition to everything (which pretends to be metaphysically nihilistic, but is in fact mis-placed libidinalism [taking libidinal values to be merely manifested in sex 'proper]) you just end up looking like a wanker, in several senses (and several senses of senses).

My 'name-dropping' was shorthand for a conflicting panoply of perspectives and 'narratives' relating to gender-identity. It's very common.

[ni'k]

grow the fuck up "my clamour to some sort of radical opposition to everything"

seriously you can do better than that.

thats crap glice and you know full well you're projecting it. "oh! you're just against everything!" give me a fucking break. "you're just against it for the sake of being against everything!". as you might say... weak.

you take my comments as being somehow "against" transexualism? they really weren't, i even tried to explain i was making no value judgement of it at all.

now unless you are upset because you feel the proper position towards it should be inherently positive to avoid transphobia (which to me is a mistake) then i don't see your point at all.

and when you go on to say (several sense of senses)... is this really how you think? and you call me incoherent. just babble to prove how deep your thought is (on levels the rest of us can't possibly understand). or are you going to wow us all know with an exposition of all the meta levels or whatever.

you know what you look like? a fucking pathetic adult on a message board of children were there is noone who is likely to be as educated as you are. (thus giving you natural unchallenged superiority) who has this tired little schtick of trying to wow with both a litany of high concepts and (to show you're not totally dry and academic) the use of either fuck or cunt or something. wow, how completely original, doesn't look like a frustrated idiot at all.

seriously, you behave like a petulant whiner on a school playground whose learnt he can insult people with both the word fuck and a slew of high concepts that make him sound oh so ever smart.

what a fucking sad pose. what a fucking pathetic little man you must be to do that.

makes you come off like you know nothing except verbose hot air and want but need oh so desperately to be seen for something you're not.

you know you lost me completely, in fact i was just stunned when you came out with that "no i don't believe christ was the literal son of god"
"that is to say i absolutely do"

i mean that double bluff, holding 2 positions at once. what a completely redundant pomo pose that is. i mean i'm sorry but when i read that i thought "now it makes sense why this guy is on an syg message board and likes mcr and taylor swift", that he's just an idiot. i mean can you really seriously be operating on that level?

really makes me doubt the coherency of whatever it is your project is supposed to be about. really makes me wonder what it is you're actually trying to do write about. will i ever SEE any of it i wonder, or will noone ever see it, will you just leak out fragments here and there to make it look like you're actually doing something?

see i really can't tell if you have a point, or if you're just trying to look like you do, because you sabotaged any room for an actual reasoned discussion with that wanker comment.

now either grow the fuck up and say that all again without the bitching so we can have an actual discussion for the purpose of the truth of the matter in itself or admit you're just a troll and gtfo.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

I'm in no way that type of aggressive person and believe in educating people, rather than just being angry at them.

smash racism! racism is beyond education, it only responds to what it knows, swift, blinding violence.

(I kid, eye for an eye leaves us all blinded, but you at least have to bully these assholes around every once in awhile, I've come to realize that most vocally racist people don't really believe have the tripe that they speak on, its just that no one ever really seriously challenged them on it, and when somebody finally does in an aggressive way, they come to their senses)

[knox]

Originally Posted by ni'k

i don't know how much of a good thing that is tho. (that it would be considered illegal)

i mean whats actually needed is a leftist working class movement. a party that targets the same people and same areas that the bnp does.

a state that would outlaw the bnp might be just as quick to outlaw a far leftist party.

no no, better to let them operate, but SABOTAGE their operations. but not by outright banning them and giving them the power of self righteous victimisation, making it look like you have something to be afraid of. no, you let them run but you interfere, never let them get off the ground, step in here and there, mess up things. monitor them, infiltrate if needs be. muddle and confuse them. waste their time, its not hard, you just throw in a few either controversial or misinformed comments to misdirect things.

the american far right and republican party knows how to fucking do this right. i'll give them that. its not just paranoia talking. read them closely enough and in the right places. because they actually albeit misguidedly believe in their own crap they feel entitled to win using any tactics possible. so they will openly discuss how to shut down liberal debate by infiltrating message boards for example and spreading counter propaganda but doing it pretending to be a liberal. they know that the best way to paralyze your enemy on this terrain is to muddle it, to confuse it, to waste its time in endless debate, to troll it subtley, to sow divisions within.

fuck, think how fun this would be. if only the state would pay me to do it. well, at least i already do in teslas mind, because you know what a dangerous radical he is and how important it is to stop him from blowing our nefarious schemes.

but the right already really do this. on places like democraticunderground.com they do it and have been caught out. i mean i've read them on their right wing blogs discussing these tactics.

thats on small scale, on the larger scale you have your karl roves and your fox news. same type of tactics tho - we don't give a shit about playing by the rules. so its kind of redundant to chase after them all the time demanding better standards of them. they dont care in the first place! they only pretend to have any kind of standards at all. fight dirty or you end up with obama and then they get back into power.

well after all, it's not like people or parties like that don't exist - it's more like you have a much harder time figuring them out.

in my experience a "real" leftist party is not even a real possibility anymore - because all the romantic "left" and "right" gets mixed up in a whole pot of romantic illusions of grandeur and authority that just aren't pratical or benefit anyone in the greater scheme of the new world.

you know, down here people are more interested in a romantic speech of whatever "left" is supposed to be and words matter more than actions - so funny things happen - like people who claim to be "communists" who own a few million-dollar houses get elected state governors with the support of big companies, while also claiming to be democrats. In some twisted world, people think that's a real ideology.

While there's a shitload of parties in the middle, who have actual practical plans that are way more people-oriented get completely forgotten because it just isn't "dramatic" enough, it isn't as entertaining as good X evil.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by knox

you've been going to the wrong places and talking to the wrong people? i hope. please say yes.

erm... yes?

[space]

Originally Posted by ni'k

[globbidy bliggidy doo]

now either grow the fuck up and say that all again without the bitching so we can have an actual discussion for the purpose of the truth of the matter in itself or admit you're just a troll and gtfo.

you should scratch that racist cunt's eyes out, dragonlad(y)

[knox]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

erm... yes?

thank you.
that is reassuring.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by knox

thank you.
that is reassuring.

i am as reassuring as can be