[Genteel Death]

You lost the plot, there.

[ni'k]

not porn. pomo as in post modern.

the plot is impossible to follow because of the whole "make it up as you go along" thing. also its utter bullshit.

[Genteel Death]

Teasing you. Would you care to explain the post-modern, bullshit qualities of Lost with more detail please? Possibly in a more coherent manner than your usual way.

[Count Mecha]

Originally Posted by akprodr

Trying not to add a spoiler, from yesterday's show, the guy said 'you hit me with a rifle butt". Anybody know what season/episode that was? I think it was season 1 but I can't find the episode.

That was Aldo, he was in the season 3 episode Not In Portland, the seventh episode I think.

ni'k, Lost is not difficult to follow, just long payoffs.

[ni'k]

no. i can't believe anyone is seriously defending this travesty. by the end of season 1 you could tell it was slipping, now it's just CRAP. it was supposed to be a 10 part series but they extended it because of the ratings. and then just started to make it up as they went along. it will finish inconclusively and not wrap up the loose ends. it's tedious with horrendous acting and dialogue. who gives a fuck anymore, or about any of the characters. there hasnt been a decent pay off since sawyer realised he'd met jacks dad. and the "oh let's just kill people off to be like so shocking" stuff is stupid. it's not done right, it's lost any sense of perspective, and the characters are just shallow now, and really should have been demanded more specifics off of ben instead of just accepting what's been happening. you have characters committing horrendous acts of violence under thin pretenses with little idea of what's happening, supposed to be some sort of metaphor for life under us foreign policy?

i would love a complex show with sci fi elements that dared to be as avant as lost COULD have been had they gotten their fucking acts together and started developing a proper plot arc as soon as they realised they would be extended beyond 10 episodes, and if they had the sense to hire actors BASED ON THEIR ABILITY TO PERFORM and not a bunch of hacks who they have to kill off because they aren't prepared to do another series then it could have been good. also fire the music guy, GET SOMEONE WHO CAN ACTUALLY WRITE CONVINCING DIALOGUE, stop with the knocking people out every 5 seconds, and the crappy camera work, and ridiculously clean and made up actors. and had charlie burn to death horrifically in the first episode, never to return, and get rid of clare, kate, hurley and ben, and let me write direct produce and take over the whole thing, then it might be ok.

for a mainstream tv show it had potential, but slowly turned to crap once they used up their only trick, which was "hey, let's like for once just not tell them what's going on or wrap it up at all, let's not give them any of the easy answers and wrap thiings up like we always do". it was a total gimmick. i so desperately wanted to write for this show during the first season and had my own plot thought out, it's not often that there's a film or show that gets me to think about it like this so i hate it even more for how disaterously they have handled it, there was even a brief period during the end of the first season were i thought it could still have been fixed and rescued from devolving into ridiculousness, shame.

[ni'k]

seriously i can just picture my own director's cut of the pilot wherein charlie appears and delivers one line of his horrendous annoyingness - revealing to us all that this character surely must be killed off, for the thought of him as a regular feature is abdominable - before getting decapitated by a flying shard of metallic shrapnel, his twattish head rolling to a gentle stop in the sand. and then, just to annihilate any trace of his viscera, a massive segment of the plane lands and crushes him.

[akprodr]

Yes, I'll agree it went down hill but I'd put it at season 4.

The thing that keeps me watching is the whole interconnectedness thing. This last episode had me going "OMG--how is all this going to tie in". It was outlandish but with the rules they set up, nothing it really out of the realm of possibility.

I was surprised that they were just making it up as they went along. They made a lot of really good plot elements in the beginning that they could keep coming back to. I was convinced they had the whole 'arc' plotted out ahead of time. Very good writing to get it as far as it is.

[akprodr]

Originally Posted by Count Mecha

That was Aldo, he was in the season 3 episode Not In Portland, the seventh episode I think.

Thx

[Count Mecha]

Sorry you don't like it. But I could argue just as much in the show's defense. For instance, I like the cinematography, and the music is some of the best on television, probably second to Pete and Pete or something.

Ok, the writing isn't perfect. Maybe they say 'what?' or 'are you okay?' a little too often, but it's generally of a good caliber. At the very worst it's better than the majority of network tv right now.

None of the main characters (with one exception that can be argued) have died on the show without a narrative reason behind it.

I think the arcs in the show have been concise enough to be interesting and relevant. Ok, so maybe Montand didn't lose his arm exactly where Rousseau said he did, but that moment was together enough to be satisfying. Did you really hate the explanation of the drug plane? Or Sawyer's encounter with Cooper? or The Monster? Do you not think Locke's explanation of Backgammon to Walt in the pilot fits in terrificly with what's going on now? No revelation or explanation has been dissatisfying yet, to me anyway. Except for maybe Jack's tattoos. Sorry if the show rubs you the wrong way.

I would also argue against that the characters have become shallow. Sure, I'll concede that seasons 4 and 5 have been more plot driven than the earlier seasons. But they haven't become flat. Sawyer, Jack, and Sayid are in particularly interesting places right now in their development, they are all different people than they started the show as. Look at Flashes Before Your Eyes, that's an amazing character episode, one of the best in the series.

Being a network show, the show isn't going to venture into thematic depths found in the likes of War and Peace or some Bergman film, but the show still explores some interesting ideas, at least more interesting than you'll find in Grey's Anatomy or one of those CSI shows. What happens to us when we die? Is humanity beyond redemption and if not, do they even deserve it? Fate, free will, science as opposed to faith, and a number of others.

Anyway, I think it's great, definitely better than most other stuff out there. And Charlie died eventually, that's gotta get you some points.

[ni'k]

fair points. you dont need to apologise for it.

libby wont be coming back and her story wont be explained at all, cos the actress doesnt want to do it. eko decided he didnt want to do it and they had to kill him off, he was supposed to be in it for another 2 seasons. that was stupid of them because eko was one of the best characters and they should have found an actor that would have stayed, his death just seemed forced to me. see things like you said about locke and walt with the backgammon, i would never remember that because im past the point of caring enough. SOME of the music is good but i don't think it is used right, it's often over done for dramatic effect and just sounds cheesy. ive watched it as it aired and not in chunks on dvd and can't remember much of it. dread to think what csi or greys must be like if they are worse than lost. i can't believe the dialogue doesn't just ANGER you tho, i mean it's gotten very very bad at times, inexcusable for something people are supposedly paid to write.

oh and jacks tattoo's are just mathew fox's own tatoos and nothing to do with the plot.

[PAULYBEE2656]

its a great programme, we are at episode 3 at the moment so im not reading this thread til its over..no spoilers as they say!