[PAULYBEE2656]

and now for the greatest circuit ever.... or at least the greatest that is still being used..

the belgian g.p. at spa francorchamp

 

i mean its a beautiful track, fast, very fast with fast challenging corners.... a mistake here means big trouble...

 

and two of the greatest corners on the planet.. pouhon and eau rouge...

 

 

spot the difference.....

anyway the race.... its gonna be wet seemingly to the forecast and weather is gonna play a huge part...

mclarens are gonna blitz this... maybe not lewis tho.... the temperature is low so ferrari will be disadvantaged to a point but all of that is technical bullcrap..... this place always has quality racing whatever the category and the gp2 race earlier today proved that... also proved any mkistake could end up with a trip to hospital!

my predictions..

1. heiki
2. lewis
3. kubica

there is where i stop...
i believe kimi will finish somewhere, i believe massa will be under pressure so he will revert back to donkeyness... i also belive that vettel and/or bourdais will shine tomorrow.. here is hoping its bourdais because he needs a bit of luck, i mean he is 4 time champ car champion so he isnt shite!!!!

cant wait for this one!

[PAULYBEE2656]

also on a side note.....

the new superleague formula kicked off...

20 (17 at the moment) football teams run powerful v12 machines around 6 ciricuits for 12 races this year. the first round was at donington and it was blighted by unreliability but the actual racing was damn good and the cars look and sound amazing........

teams like ac milan, galatasary, liverpool, porto, sevilla, some beijing team, some arab team, borrusia dortmund, liver pool and the greatest team and the nicest car ever.... tottenham..

 

check it out. its live on setanta and highlighs on eurosport. next race in a few weeks! its good shit!

[demonrail666]

Yeah, I was watching qualifying today and really wished they'd just start the race straight after. Can't wait for this one.

Lewis was ridiculous in qualifying, but I wonder about his mindset. He seems scared to really go for it during the race itself, but not at his best when playing the safety game.

I can't see Kimi winning it (although he is due a great drive this season, to say the least). For me it'll be a straight race between Lewis and Mass. But with the likelihood of rain, and plenty of crash opportunities, this really could be anyone's.

[PAULYBEE2656]

great race......well, great last 5 minutes!!! slowest end to a g.p. ever.....

unlucky kimi but again, you make your own luck and lewis did a great job...... monza next week... another classic!

[demonrail666]

Yeah, a definite case of a race that went from ordinary to aweseme in the last ten laps. Hamilton's skill and determination in the final stint warranted the win for me. I could watch those on car camera shots through eau rouge all day. Beautiful.

A bit worrying about the stewards enquiry into Lewis' overtaking of Kimi. I don't see what he did wrong, and if they penalise Lewis it's gonna be an even more controversial decision than their failure to penalise Massa in that pit incident at Valencia.

Either way, the season's surely over for Kimi - and I still think Massa is an easier obstacle for Lewis. (Despite him continually proving me wrong).

Roll on Monza!

[PAULYBEE2656]

yeah... stewards discussing 2 cars racing each other!!!!! if anything comes of this as a penalty or anything i will give up watching the sport.... (propbably not but....)

i mean yeah lewis missed the chicane but he virtually stopped to allow kimi to get ahead of him again and then they resumed an engaging battle. my only reckoning is that kimi changed his line to the first corner a couple of times just before lewis got by... but hey, ITS MOTOR RACING!!!!!!!

i mean what would the f.i.a. make of this bit of action..

one of the best bits of racing ever anywhere....

i sincerely hope nothing comes of this.........

[PAULYBEE2656]

news just in...

Ferrari’s Felipe Massa has been declared the winner of Sunday’s Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren’ Lewis Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty following the race. Hamilton drops to third place as a result, with BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld moving up to second place.

Hamilton was penalised after stewards decided he had gained an advantage by cutting the final chicane in his late-race battle with Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen.

More to follow.....



THATS FROM THE OFFICIAL F.I.A. SITE..

that is bollocks as he didnt gain an advantage, he stopped and allowed kimi to overtake him!!!!!!

utter bollocks.. anything to give ferrari the championship!!!
the Ferrari International Aid has put forward another dangerous benchmark on how their rules should and should not be interpreted and moreso what is and is not motor RACING!!!!!


man can we have just one season when all the shit happens on the fucking track.........

whats the betting that kimi doesnt get any grid penalty for monza....which he should because he got a huge advantage for running on the outside of the circuit on the 2nd last lap at pouhon!!!!!!!!!

bollocks!

[demonrail666]

Lewis now demoted to third, so Massa wins. That really is beyond a joke. I still can't see anything in what Lewis did as being wrong. Anything. Even Charlie Whiting is said to have been OK with the move. I'm sure if you asked Kimi he'd say he was beaten fairly too. As it is, F1's ruling elite have shown themselves to be an utter, utter joke. Makes me seriously question my commitment to the 'sport'. DISGUSTING.

[PAULYBEE2656]

yep. totally agree... i mean i aint gonna stop watching it as i have sat through the schumacher years with seemingly constant disgust but this is actually ruling that racing is now illegal! no wonder there is no overtaking seemingly in the sport..... they are hitting drivers with penalites for actually racing!!!!!!

if there is blame to be given its for both lewis and kimi to be penalised. the only way f.i.a. can save face is to give the stupid 10 grid place penalty to kimi as he didnt finish the race anyway! he drove off the circuit for a full 100 yards later in the same lap! he gained an advantage because there was actually more grip there than on the track, that was proven because he came back onto the track on lewis' gearbox! alright he crashed a couple of miles later but thats besides the point.....

its the same as having an onside goal disallowed after the full time whistle in the world cup final!

what are the rules now, what do they actually mean... i cant wait to see the pre race/qualifying show before monza.... this will go on and on knowing ron dennis, he is gonna appeal and counter appeal! of course if he loses the appeal, mclaren and lewis may be docked points!!!!!!!

i suppose it will mean the last few races will be even more intresting but id like it to be fair and honest!!!!

appalling desicion by the race stewards.... even another arguement for all the races to be policed by the same people around the world, not by the officials at the circuits!

f1 seems determined to shoot itself in the foot at any given opportunity!! and i really hope charlie whiting speaks up on this! he is always ready to give an opinion but propbably is bound and gagged by mosely as well.......

appalling!

[PAULYBEE2656]

from autosport website....

 

Lewis Hamilton has lost his victory at the Belgian Grand Prix after he was given a penalty for cutting a chicane when fighting with Kimi Raikkonen.
The stewards gave Hamilton a drive-through penalty after the race had ended, meaning 25 seconds were added to his time.
The win goes to Brazilian Felipe Massa, second in the race. The penalty has dropped Hamilton to third place in the race.



By Jonathan Noble and Pablo Elizalde Sunday, September 7th 2008, 16:08 GMTRevised race results and standings:

Pos Driver Team
1. Massa Ferrari
2. Heidfeld BMW Sauber
3. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes
4. Alonso Renault
5. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari
6. Kubica BMW Sauber
7. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari
8. Webber Red Bull-Renault
9. Glock Toyota
10. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes
11. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault
12. Rosberg Williams-Toyota
13. Sutil Force India-Ferrari
14. Nakajima Williams-Toyota
15. Button Honda
16. Trulli Toyota
17. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari
18. Raikkonen Ferrari

Fastest lap: Raikkonen, 1:47.930

Not classified/retirements:

Driver Team On lap
Barrichello Honda (B) 21
Piquet Renault (B) 14


World Championship standings, round 13:

Drivers: Constructors:
1. Hamilton 76 1. Ferrari 131
2. Massa 74 2. McLaren-Mercedes 119
3. Kubica 58 3. BMW Sauber 107
4. Raikkonen 57 4. Toyota 41
5. Heidfeld 49 5. Renault 36
6. Kovalainen 43 6. Red Bull-Renault 25
7. Trulli 26 7. Williams-Toyota 17
8. Alonso 23 8. Toro Rosso-Ferrari 17
9. Webber 19 9. Honda 14
10. Glock 16
11. Vettel 13
12. Piquet 13
13. Barrichello 11
14. Rosberg 9
15. Nakajima 8
16. Coulthard 6
17. Bourdais 4
18. Button 3

[demonrail666]

It really does call into question the whole concept of drivers racing one another. if the FIA feel the way they do about overtaking then they might as well just abandon the race altogether and simply have a series of time trials as with qualifying? What possible incentive would Hamilton have had to try and overtake Kimi had he known that, apparently, overtaking a Ferrari is now an illegal move.

Better still, they should just get rid of any element of competition and just hand the titles to Ferrari on the first day of the season.

And now i hear that teams may be unable (according to FIA rules) to appeal against a drive-through penalty.

This really is bollocks. I'll be the first to complain that football is hampered by bad refereeing decisions, but at least they have to make on the spot decisions. Here, with all the benefit of technical data, action replays, interviews with the teams, etc, that they can still make such a ridiculous decision just tells you something's wrong.

Like you, I'll never stop watching F1, but it's on days like this that I really do ask myself why I would want to continue with a sport that is now about as even-handed as the Eurovision Song Contest.

[PAULYBEE2656]

yep, i heard that as well. but yknow thats probably a good thing that teams cant appeal... i mean if mclaren did, and im sure they will try to, the desicion will go on long after the end of the season... in to the new year even.

thinking about it, this could easily give lewis the upper hand. he is a strong willed determined person and im sure his attitude tomorrow will be "fuck em, we will go and beat them anyway"!!!!!

and i hope so too........ its all about consistent applications of the rule book, and never has formula one had that.. i mean they ley brabham back in 78 run with the "fan car" in sweden. it basically was a car with a huge turbine on the end that sucked, literally sucked the car to the road. it was blindingly fast but it spat out stones and all shit out of the back onto oncoming cars.... it was banned but it still was allowed to keep the points it scored and hold its place in the record books as having won one g.p.

in 1977 tyrrell prototyped the amazingly beautiful p34, the only 6 wheeled car ever to race in f1. it lasted 2 seasons, did fairly welll, won a couple of races with patrick depallier and then was discontinued due to the advent of ground effect cars.... in 1982 williams pioneered a 6 wheeled car. in testing it blew everyone away, it was fats.... the f.i.a. (then f.o.c.a. with jean marie balestre at the helm and their opposing camp f.i.s.a.with one berie ecclestone at the helm) decided to ban it 3 weeks before the season started, rewrote the rule book stating f1 cars must have 4 wheels, 2 of which be driven, outlawing any 6 wheeled or 4x4 drive cars immediatly. williams started the season with a year old car, they won the drivers championship that year with keke rosberg (nicos da).

my point is this... they, being the governing body, seem free to manipulate the ruleboook when they see fit, a rebellion is on the cards very soon if power doesnt change!

latest interview and report from the f1 jounalist group

Ferrari’s Felipe Massa has been declared the winner of Sunday’s Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren’ Lewis Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty following the race. Hamilton drops to third place as a result, with BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld moving up to second. McLaren plan to appeal the decision.

Hamilton was penalised after stewards decided he had gained an advantage by cutting the final chicane in his late-race battle with Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen. Raikkonen crashed out shortly after the incident, having the led the bulk of the race up to that point.

"I have often said that the race is not over until the official results are published and that was the case today," said Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali. "As usual, Ferrari will not comment on the stewards' decision. After the race, we were called to the stewards and we explained our position.

"We are very disappointed for Kimi, who had driven a great race and deserved the win, especially at this rather difficult time. This result is obviously very important for our championship hopes: now we must maintain maximum concentration and prepare as well as possible for the forthcoming races."

McLaren insisted they had little choice but to appeal the stewards' decision, given that Hamilton had immediately surrendered the lead back to Raikkonen on the start-finish straight, before then passing the Finn going into the La Source hairpin.

"We looked at all our data and also made it available to the FIA stewards," said the team. "It showed that, having lifted, Lewis was 6km/h slower than Kimi as they crossed the start-finish line. Having passed the lead back to Kimi, Lewis repositioned his car, moving across and behind Kimi to the right-hand line and then out-braked him into the hairpin. Based on this data, we have no option other than to register our intention to appeal."

The revised result means that rather than extending his championship lead over Massa, Hamilton now sees it cut, with the Briton heading the Brazilian by just two points, 76 to 74, with five races remaining.

Assuming their right to appeal is accepted, McLaren's case against Hamilton's penalty will be heard by the FIA's International Court of Appeal at a date to be determined.

[PAULYBEE2656]

the latest

McLaren have revealed that they were assured by FIA race officials during the Belgian Grand Prix that Lewis Hamilton had done enough, by allowing Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen to repass him, to prevent the British driver from being penalised for cutting a chicane earlier in the duo’s epic battle.

“From the pit wall, we asked race control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay',” explained McLaren’s F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh in a statement released on Tuesday.

Following the race, however, Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty by the Belgian Grand Prix stewards, after it was ruled he had gained an unfair advantage over Raikkonen. As a result, Hamilton was demoted from first place to third and Ferrari’s Felipe Massa was declared the winner of the Spa event.

“If race control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis’s actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time,” added Whitmarsh.

McLaren have now lodged an appeal against the stewards’ decision.


more utter shit flinging...

[PAULYBEE2656]

and look what massa said then...

Felipe Massa says Lewis Hamilton was “too optimistic” in trying to retake Kimi Raikkonen for the lead of the Belgian Grand Prix so soon after short-cutting the track.
Hamilton won last Sunday's race on the road, but was later given a 25-second penalty for missing the Bus Stop chicane during his dramatic battle with Raikkonen in the closing laps, demoting him to third place.
Although he immediately lifted off the throttle to let the Ferrari back through, the stewards deemed that he had gained an unfair advantage since he repassed Raikkonen under braking for the next corner, La Source, a matter of seconds later.
Having watched replays of the incident Massa believes the stewards' decision was justified because Hamilton "only partially" handed the lead back and did not fully restore the status quo.
“What Lewis did is the sort of thing that can happen, but I think he was maybe a bit too optimistic in thinking he could just hand back the position, albeit only partially to Kimi and then immediately try and pass him again," Massa said on Ferrari's official website.
“Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained."


of course he would say that.. back to donkey driving at monza please felipe and try not to upset youre employers too much now will you!!!!! moron.

[PAULYBEE2656]

OK.... TIME FOR REALITY TO KICK IN AGAIN...
the high speed quickfire italian g.p. on one of the most historic circuits of them all.... monza

 

keeping it short on my predictions but what i would say is kimi will be on fire on ferraris front lawn, he has to be if he wants to win the championship..

i feel a bit of bad blood maybe between mclaren and ferrari after the stupid and pitiful penalty they received at spa but its not gonna affect the drivers. lewis isnt gonna drive into massa...he is too intellegent for that!

lewis will be out to win...its a tough call....kubica... he is always good here, finished 4th on his debut in 2006.....

1. kimi
2. massa
3. lewis
4. kubica
5. trulli


rest of em doesnt really matter at the moment.......

[demonrail666]

I also read the statements you posted above and agree that (in the case of Massa) they're pathetic. It's pointless going on about it but there really is so much wrong with the stewards' decision. It's anti-racing, flat out wrong in its assessment of Lewis' failure to 'properly' give back the lead, and takes no consideration of the complexion of the race at that time. From what I've read so far, the only people even remotely in agreement wth the stewards are those associated with Ferrari. Surprise surprise. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I do think McClaren have a good chance of having the penalty over-turned. It just seems to me that if it is upheld it'll undermine any attempt to overtake in the future or any demonstration of 'aggressive' driving - not that Lewis was 'dangerous' in what he did - far less so than Kimi anyway, in his initially forcing Lewis off the track at the chicane. I also think the FIA are aware that the media are becoming more and more savvy to their Ferrari bias, and it would certainly be good PR for them if they reinstated Lewis' win.

Monza, yeah. It does look like a Ferrari 1-2, although Kimi is likely to be shit in qualifying and will probably start from about fifth, so a lot will depend on pit strategy. Massa is looking a lot better as the season progresses and I think he'll be a threat to the end (although i do still find his second place in the championship race utterly absurd). Will Kimi now be relegated to supportning Massa's championship bid? That would be interesting to see - he didn't seem that arsed about winning it, so I can't see how bothered he'll be about supporting someone else's bid.

My hatred of Ferrari has now reached almost fever pitch. I can't even watch re-runs of Magnum pi anymore.

[PAULYBEE2656]

furthermore.......it looks to be the first full wet monza grand prix in decades... i certainly cant remember ever seeing a full wet f1 race there before.........

i do remember a sportscar world championship event being cancelled due to a gale blowing branches off trees and onto the track but at a guess, last wet monza g.p. must be in the 1960s or even 50s...

this could be very interesting........

to answer yr question...
Will Kimi now be relegated to supportning Massa's championship bid?

not if he can help it, i doubt we will see that happening unless it becomes mathematically inmpossible.. there is 50 points still to be won this year!!!

[demonrail666]

Kimi confirmed now until 2010, which is a bit of a shock I must admit. Less shocking though is the fact that, according to an interview with Hamilton on the BBC last night that 9/10 drivers believed he gained an advantage during the chicane incident. Although most also agreed that they thought the punishment a bit harsh.

Kimi fasted in Friday's testing. I'm throwing all impartiality out the window from now on and backing Lewis all the way.

[PAULYBEE2656]

yeah. lewis di indeed gain an advantage but the punishment wasnt warranted at all.... there will be further discussions during the week. mclaren trial set for the 22nd of sept! goood luck to em!

check out gp2 final races.. 14.30 today and 9.25 tomorrow morn on itv4. senna, pantano, di grassi and grosjean all in with a shout of the title....

also indianapolis moto gp on sunday evening.. watched practice yesterday... very very very wet!!!

great weekend of sport!

[PAULYBEE2656]

vettel pole!!!

tomorrow is gonna be some cracker of a race!