[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

Gay spanking ahoy.

The argument 'existence of God' always flounders somewhere around the point of the underlying metaphysical system/ belief of the protagonists. Ergo, and argument with yourself is going to be difficult because you've already stated (I summarise) that science and theology are two distinct domains... although I do disagree that the two are incommensurable. Obviously, we have the fact that, predominantly, those responsible for the major paradigmatic shifts in scientific thinking are usually religious - your Einsteins, your Newtons, your Gallileos and the like. What I alway recourse to in these arguments is that science and religion are distinct in terms of their argumentative criteria - ergo, science's economy is one of materialist logic and strict interpretive criteria - remember, although God retains his presence in absentum, the visibility of atoms and the other supposed 'objective' frameworks upon which physics is based are absent except in exceptionally narrow and exclusive conditions - that is, the very, very limited domain of a very, very expensive laboratory. Insofar as this observation is true, it also remains true that, for the majority, atoms are seen only in effect. The contention of my religious side is that I have never seen atoms but trust that others have (in the exclusive laboratory conditions intimated); likewise, I consider that others have definitely seen God, or God's effects (clerics of whatever denomination) and that I have experienced something likewise (although I don't really trust myself enough with anything other than fear).

The crux of my argument lies herein - I can't be bothered to type any more, and I hope I have said something contentious for you to rip apart.

Should you happen to agree with everything I have written, then please consider the following as an invitation for a scrap - You're a big-nosed cockbag with poor personal hygeine. Prick.

yippeeee!!!!

let me start by calling you a limey pig-scrotum licker & proceed--

the first thing i'd question is the implied attribution that the scientific discoveries of paradigm shifters are somehow validated or invalidated by their religious beliefs. while the seemingly poetic thinking that seems to be at the core of scietific theories could certainly have a religious influence (read donna haraway on narrative and metaphor in scientific models), it has nothing to do with their workings or verifiability. any scientific model that requires some sort of god working behind the scenes is just plain unscientific. while newton could speculate all he wanted on the role of god as a cosmic watchmaker, making repairs and such, all that it took to verify his theories was observation and mathematics-- no telescopes were ever pointed at god.

the other problem i see with your argument is that you are forgetting that, expensive laboratory as it may be, the scientific method requires that experiments are repeatable and the results repeatable. which you can't do with a vision of the holy mother of god. so while belief in science requires a certain amount of confidence (a confidence that can be betrayed, like with the piltdown man or the manipulation of innumerable experimental results), there are checks built into the sytem, to allow continuous testing, and revision, unlike with faith. and so science, when properly understood, cannot be dogma. perhaps in a number of decades children will be able to experiment with subatomic particles in the solace of ther kitchens (and verify if our current laboratories are ran by a gang of scammers), much like today's chemistry sets (i almost blew my eyes out once with some exploding blue compound, but that's another story).

scientificism may be a form of religious thought, but science isn't.

gum-diseased spent masturbator.... now write something coherent

[Vodka Goblin]

Hey ov corse theres a higher power i'm talkin abowt BLAGGTHUGGINNA the fukkin great big god of the goblins shes the one hool cum an' like leed us into freedum, how'll she do that the scriptures say right that and this is a qwote from the scriptures yeh she'll do that by VERILY APPEARING FROM FUKKIN NOWERE AND BLOWIN OFF THE HEDS OFF THE FUKKIN ELVES 'N' THE FUKKIN GNOMES 'N' THE FUKKIN SKY WILL BE RED WITH THE FUKKIN BLOOD 'N' EVRYWON WILL REJOYCE AND GET FUKKIN PISSED, see the goblin scriptures are grate becos first they true and seconed they got loads of swearin in them and third they say like go an get pissed a lot baysicly wich is gud HEY THAT REMINDS ME i shud get the vodka out now 'n' fulfil me religshus dutys for the day ha ha see yu soon maybe in anuther thred yeh.

[Daycare Nation]

Originally Posted by jheii

I'm still on about this "bloodthirsty God of the Jews" business...

Tell me what makes you think that "Ein Sof" (google it) has the capacity for bloodthirst. Yr perhaps forgetting that religion for the masses rarely touches upon the true nature of the divine, because that's not what the masses need, is it? In fact, look at contemporary Christian theology and tell me how often the sermons that are given from Seoul to South Carolina really speak about the transcendent nature of Salvation and Gnosis with the divine? See where I'm going with this? All religions were created equal, and all views of God the Father are equally frivolous when one is trying to live a holy life. The holy spirit is all you need, and you can call that what you want. This is getting strange...

Do you believe in rapture?

What I'm saying is easy to demonstrate--there are numerous references to a wrathful God in the OT, and the central focus of the NT is antithetical....

The OT God tells the Jews to slaughter women and children....I'm not making it up--it's in the OT.

And no, I don't believe in rapture--that idea is not biblical, and it was created less than 200 years ago.

[Daycare Nation]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

though i was clearly using the extreme shorthand, i meant to say that your post amounted to nothing but a load of mental masturbation. hence the term "wanker".

you could have posted what you just wrote instead of crying to me with the rep points, boohooohoo, which is what i found both cowardly and pathetic (though both concepts overlap, they are not the same). get it? if someone insults you, do your best to come up with a proper reply! for fuck's sakes...

so, now that you've grown some balls, let's test your kung-fu...

You're the cry baby. I've received tons of negative rep and I don't go about whining on the forum because of it.

[atari 2600]

I missed all this...
it pisses me off somewhat when AA has their "higher power' mantra in full swing & it's a clear violation of Jeffersonian separation of church & state, but do I believe in God?
(is that what this post is about really?)

Of course I do...don't be ridiculous.

If one can't clearly see how Einstein proved God's existence, then one is truly lost.

[golden child]

Originally Posted by jheii

I don't think anyone in their right mind, believer or non, would consider that sort of response as anything but irritating and condescending. Because, well, it is. I say none of it matters. Except maybe Jesus and the Buddha. Jesus said "Take this cup and drink from it; it is my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant." Which means that he erased the previous ideas that one must devote his or her life to the father to achieve salvation. He also said that denying the father, or himself, was not an unforgivable sin. So, any Christian thinkers out there care to explain why it was okay with Jesus to deny the father, and why, with a glass of wine, he decided to call "do-over" on what he considered to be the entire religious history of the world and start from scratch? Any thoughts?

what a stupid post, you should really read the bible so you may understand it more clearly.

[Daycare Nation]

Originally Posted by golden child

the stupidest post of the week, you should really read the bible so you may understand in clearly.

Yeah, now that I re-read it, that is quite a hazy post. I guess I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin--I assumed that is what he meant....and Christ's breaking with the tradition of temple-oriented worship in favor of more radical means of forgiveness, etc.

But yeah, I don't think he was CALLING for "denial of the Father." That would not be a trinitarian concept.

[golden child]

jesus cannot deny god, because jesus IS god.

[Daycare Nation]

Originally Posted by Saturnine

Maybe so, but I can deny either of their existences, and I do so with merit.

You smoke Merits?

[atari 2600]

It'll never work. Saturnine will always feel she is second fiddle to Laila---who spurned your advances hehe...you blew it, AssBlaster.

You blew yr wad prematurely.


Woe is you.

[Daycare Nation]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

It'll never work. Saturnine will always feel she is second fiddle to Laila---who spurned your advances hehe...you blew it, AssBlaster.

You blew yr wad prematurely.

So THAT's his problem. How long do you last, little buddy? 5 secs?

[Daycare Nation]

LOL! I just saw your sig line. I like it.

[atari 2600]

whenever I'm, as Jessica Lange might say, "takin' a drag off of death," it's usually a Camel Light providing the proverbial nicotine delivery system.

He can't be a man 'cos he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me

[atari 2600]

Neither did I for a few years until a few bad winter colds.

These days, I haven't been sick in years.

...I'll have another cigarette
& curse Sir Walter Raleigh
he was such a stupid git

[Daycare Nation]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

whenever I'm, as Jessica Lange might say, "takin' a drag off of death," it's usually a Camel Light prioviding the nicotine delivery system.

He can't be a man 'cos he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me

atari, are you quoting the cat power version or the rolling stones version?

I haven't smoked in about 5 years...but I tried many brands when I was still smoking. Never really stuck with one. My lungs have issues now.

[acousticrock87]

Wusses. I just throw tobacco into the fireplace and close the flue.

[atari 2600]

Meanwhile

Daycare Nation proposes that AssBlaster is Gilligan to his skipper.

&

golden child affirms his Faith in the Holy Trinity.

[krastian]

God I miss smoking.


I know nothing of God or the Devil.

 

[HaydenAsche]

I believe in God. Call me naive or whatever but I don't give a shit.

[krastian]

I used to....now it's pretty hit and miss.