[pokkeherrie]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

Talent is just a word for people who can't grasp that the person in question has had 20 years of practice, too.

This was drawn by an 8-year old girl. How many 8-year olds in the world are capable of drawing like this?

 

I probably still won't be able to if I'll live to the age of 100.

http://www.artakiane.com/vid-cnn-spi...oungartist.htm
(ignore the spiritual crap)

[This Is Not Here]

Originally Posted by pokkeherrie

I probably still won't be able to if I'll live to the age of 100.

Perhaps. As I said, people learn at different speeds, this girl simply picked up how to paint very fast, good for her. I'd say give it less than 8 years and you could paint like that, it's not as hard as it looks.

[pokkeherrie]

I seriously doubt it, but who knows. Unfortunately(?) we will never find out, because I haven't painted in well over 8 years and don't plan on starting soon.

[acousticrock87]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

So what's the fucking message for all those out there that want to express themselves, and 'create'? ...

Practice makes perfect, practice your instrument or your painting style - but you might aswell quit at the first hurdle, the first difficultly you come across, because it just means your not talented. No point carrying on further to see if you get better at it, because if you're not gifted, the more you work at it the more time you waste. Give up. Give up now. Only certain people can create. Nobody knows who these people are, everyone thinks they're someone different. But just give up.

What IS NOT pig-headed about that?

But that's the problem pork alluded to. Why sit around trying to break new ground for its own sake? I do think some people lack talent--I often fear that I'm one of them. It sucks, etc. But that's not the point of art. You don't need to succeed to get anything out of trying. And as you said (sarcastically, I know): Nobody knows who's talented until they tap into that talent (and that often requires years and years of work anyway; not everyone who is talented is immediately talented). So everyone should keep trying because you might be talented, and if not, it was a fun ride. That's how life works.

What I'm saying is, everyone should want to succeed and try to succeed in whatever they want, but there can be no shame in failure if you're trying. It's all about the process and the hope, because until your dying day you can't know your potential. And even then, your potential might not be recognized until you're dead. So always keep trying.

[fugazifan]

mozart never made drafts for his music. he heard the whole peice nin his head, and just wrote it
beethoven would go through entire notebooks just to find the perfect THEME for a movement
mozart died poor without a pot to piss in, and nobaody was at his burial (7 people came to his funeral)
beethoven was immensly rich 20,000 people came to his funeral

can one say that mozart was more talented that beethoven? if he was, does that make him a better composer?
does it matter?
am i making any sense?
probably not
oh well

oh and TINH
i do not think that with enough practice anybody can play anything. i think a good example is dream theater, i dobt that they can correctly play (ie dynamics emotion etc) a peice by rodrigo, paco de lucia, or john fahey.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

So what's the fucking message for all those out there that want to express themselves, and 'create'? ...

Practice makes perfect, practice your instrument or your painting style - but you might aswell quit at the first hurdle, the first difficultly you come across, because it just means your not talented. No point carrying on further to see if you get better at it, because if you're not gifted, the more you work at it the more time you waste. Give up. Give up now. Only certain people can create. Nobody knows who these people are, everyone thinks they're someone different. But just give up.

What IS NOT pig-headed about that?

That is plainly not what I was saying at all, but go ahead and put words in my mouth if you like. I'm not interested in being baited into pointless arguments.

[This Is Not Here]

I was not trying to put anything in your mouth my friend. But your view essentially means that anyone of the "non-talented"'s attempts to express themselves are totally futile. I'm sorry, but thats what the concept of talent and inborn creativity means.

[This Is Not Here]

Anyway, regressive PARTY, anyone?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

I was not trying to put anything in your mouth my friend. But your view essentially means that anyone of the "non-talented"'s attempts to express themselves are totally futile. I'm sorry, but thats what the concept of talent and inborn creativity means.

I think it's true that anyone, given the right amount of training and dedication, could do something like a, for argument's sake, Picasso. But can they be trained to think in such a way that would enable them to create a Guernica of their own? The problem is that we don't really understand how he came up with it, so how can we learn it? In that sense I tend to agree with Acousticrock's argument above. You can teach someone how to do something that already exists, but not something that's yet to happen.

[This Is Not Here]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

You can teach someone how to do something that already exists, but not something that's yet to happen.

This is very true. However, you can teach them the output from which the thing that is yet to happen will come from, ie. painting or playing guitar. Essentially what irritates me about the concept of talent is it so often equated with skill, painting and drawing 'well' and playing guitar 'well'. But these are still skills, and all skills can be learnt, by anyone, by following instuctions. How often, in proportion to painters, do you hear conceptual, installation etc. artists being described as talented? No often enough, anyway.

[This Is Not Here]

I beleive creative talent is innate in everyone on earth. Often they need to be taught skills to fully realise these talents and transfer successfully their ideas to sound or a visual image, and this is very possible, albeit difficult sometimes. The difference between artists and people who don't create is merely their attitude to their creativity, whether it is something they want to explore, or not. The idea that some people just don't have the capacity to be creative is rediculous, and it plainly avoids how amazingly capable of reacting to their experiences and surroundings every human being is. However, some people with great creative potential see these activities as a waste of time, and thats the really sad thing.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by pokkeherrie

This was drawn by an 8-year old girl. How many 8-year olds in the world are capable of drawing like this?

 

I probably still won't be able to if I'll live to the age of 100.

http://www.artakiane.com/vid-cnn-spi...oungartist.htm
(ignore the spiritual crap)

Yeah and it's a fucking ugly picture.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

I beleive creative talent is innate in everyone on earth. Often they need to be taught skills to fully realise these talents and transfer successfully their ideas to sound or a visual image, and this is very possible, albeit difficult sometimes. The difference between artists and people who don't create is merely their attitude to their creativity, whether it is something they want to explore, or not. The idea that some people just don't have the capacity to be creative is rediculous, and it plainly avoids how amazingly capable of reacting to their experiences and surroundings every human being is. However, some people with great creative potential see these activities as a waste of time, and thats the really sad thing.

Some people are just idiots. Some people are better than others. I'm not a communist.

[This Is Not Here]

Originally Posted by Lurker

Some people are just idiots. Some people are better than others. I'm not a communist.

Here, have a cookie sweetiepie...

[pokkeherrie]

Originally Posted by Lurker

Yeah and it's a fucking ugly picture.

Of course it is, but that's completely beside the point.

Did I have to mention that? Do you think fugazifan likes Dream Theater?

Originally Posted by pokkeherrie

Giving them a flag to wave often does the trick.

 

Not highbrow, but classical still.

Dictator. I bet a lot of those people don't even like what they're listening to, but they are doing it for queen and country.

[acousticrock87]

Originally Posted by This Is Not Here

The difference between artists and people who don't create is merely their attitude to their creativity, whether it is something they want to explore, or not. The idea that some people just don't have the capacity to be creative is rediculous, and it plainly avoids how amazingly capable of reacting to their experiences and surroundings every human being is.

But see, this gets into sketchy free-will/fate territory. What you're saying might be true, but it's a complete guess. It's essentially faith in human potential, which is fine, but there's no way to argue it unless you veer off into "practical denial"--like, just believing something because it makes you happier to believe it's true (which I'm actually all for--just not in this case).

The problem is, if someone has "creative potential" and no motivation to use it, how could that person possibly prove themselves to have creative potential? If someone has an idea that they're not presenting, as far as I'm concerned, they don't have an idea. You can't know that unmotivated people have creative ideas, and even if you could, what difference does it make? Something in them makes them lazy, which is just as bad as not being creative.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by pokkeherrie

Of course it is, but that's completely beside the point.

Did I have to mention that? Do you think fugazifan likes Dream Theater?

I really can't take this conversation seriously. It's depressing.

[pokkeherrie]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Dictator. I bet a lot of those people don't even like what they're listening to, but they are doing it for queen and country.

That's heart-warming. I'm suspecting the one on the right however of having secretly turned off her hearing-aid.

[This Is Not Here]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

You can't know that unmotivated people have creative ideas, and even if you could, what difference does it make? Something in them makes them lazy, which is just as bad as not being creative.

You've made some fine points, but thats not fair - They're not unmotivated or lazy, they're just doing other things with their lives than drawing pretty pictures. Y'know, like doing a job, raising a family.