[Rob Instigator]

The Fed Government sucks the balls of the insurance companies.
US government has more than enough money to fund Medicare fully for every single citizen. They use Medicare for Representatives and Senators health care.

Instead we send billions of dollars annually to multinational defense contractors to build machinery that is outdated before it comes off the assembly line. This guarantees more contracts.

BULLSHIT

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

The Fed Government sucks the balls of the insurance companies.
US government has more than enough money to fund Medicare fully for every single citizen. They use Medicare for Representatives and Senators health care.

Instead we send billions of dollars annually to multinational defense contractors to build machinery that is outdated before it comes off the assembly line. This guarantees more contracts.

BULLSHIT

But rob, those contracts create jobs

 

[Rob Instigator]

in China!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

indeed! im starting to try and learn about all this stuff.

low end dividend is supposedly the place to start investing.

an index fund is different, it simply tracks the stock market or a particular index (eg the dow). the thing is to find one with low fees (e.g, in america, vanguard) because the buying and selling have a cost and for people who trade frequently it's what kills earnings.

a better explanation can be found here:
http://www.fool.com/60second/indexfund.htm

but dividends are another path to go. there is a guy called jakob fiskar who managed to "retire" from his mad scientist job (he was a physicist) in 7 years... he wrote a little crazy tract on "early retirement extreme" where he explains how to live with little and be financially independent quickly--- he did it with dividend stocks.

now this isn't for the faint of heart and it fits more the ascetic approach to life but he had a forum here:

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/

and his book can be found here:

https://www.createspace.com/3457832

very smart guy, very DIY, has since gone back to work in the financial sector as a mathematician, but if you figure out his method you could be free from serfdom/potential serfdom very quickly. i'm not interested in "retirement" per se (i do what i like and i have no master), but having the flexibility to have no financial hurdles would be awesome.

anyway, enjoy.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

an index fund is different, it simply tracks the stock market or a particular index (eg the dow). the thing is to find one with low fees (e.g, in america, vanguard) because the buying and selling have a cost and for people who trade frequently it's what kills earnings.

a better explanation can be found here:
http://www.fool.com/60second/indexfund.htm

but dividends are another path to go. there is a guy called jakob fiskar who managed to "retire" from his mad scientist job (he was a physicist) in 7 years... he wrote a little crazy tract on "early retirement extreme" where he explains how to live with little and be financially independent quickly--- he did it with dividend stocks.

now this isn't for the faint of heart and it fits more the ascetic approach to life but he had a forum here:

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/

and his book can be found here:

https://www.createspace.com/3457832

very smart guy, very DIY, has since gone back to work in the financial sector as a mathematician, but if you figure out his method you could be free from serfdom/potential serfdom very quickly. i'm not interested in "retirement" per se (i do what i like and i have no master), but having the flexibility to have no financial hurdles would be awesome.

anyway, enjoy.

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

 

wow, it must suck to be a racist stereotype

meanwhile, the functionally literate can proceed here:

 

http://www.michellesingletary.com/

[dead_battery]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

an index fund is different, it simply tracks the stock market or a particular index (eg the dow). the thing is to find one with low fees (e.g, in america, vanguard) because the buying and selling have a cost and for people who trade frequently it's what kills earnings.

a better explanation can be found here:
http://www.fool.com/60second/indexfund.htm

but dividends are another path to go. there is a guy called jakob fiskar who managed to "retire" from his mad scientist job (he was a physicist) in 7 years... he wrote a little crazy tract on "early retirement extreme" where he explains how to live with little and be financially independent quickly--- he did it with dividend stocks.

now this isn't for the faint of heart and it fits more the ascetic approach to life but he had a forum here:

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/

and his book can be found here:

https://www.createspace.com/3457832

very smart guy, very DIY, has since gone back to work in the financial sector as a mathematician, but if you figure out his method you could be free from serfdom/potential serfdom very quickly. i'm not interested in "retirement" per se (i do what i like and i have no master), but having the flexibility to have no financial hurdles would be awesome.

anyway, enjoy.

thanks man, another addition to my expanding armoury of anti homelessness weapons.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

thanks man, another addition to my expanding armoury of anti homelessness weapons.

happy to share

also for a broader look at investing check out the boggleheads wiki and forum

http://www.bogleheads.org/

best wishes

ps- oh! lastly, whether you agree or not with this guy's political thinking (i do in part, in others i draw a question mark), this guy makes microeconomics crystal-clear and hilariously mind-blowing (his discussion of price controls for example goes against everything i ever believed before). and then he gets into macroeconomics a bit also but-- no graphs, no charts. a fun read all-around.

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0465022529

[tesla69]

economics is right up there with phrenology

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by tesla69

economics is right up there with phrenology

right, because supply and demand are medieval fantasies with no bearing upon the real world

--

ps- also, i might add, neouroscience is going back to the phrenological model... not in the silly and arbitrary interpretation of cranial shapes of course, but in showing that functions of the brain are locally distributed and more or less developed in individual brains. the visual cortex is in the back, language in the left parietal, motor cortex on the top, etc. and people with injuries in those areas will suffer correspondingly but also people with more development in those areas will show a greater capacity for language/motor skills/ visual perception/ etc. when people tal about "talent" they aren't talking about magical gifts from an invisible man in the sky but rather portions of the brain with above-average functionality.

[Rob Instigator]

economics is a "soft" science. You cannot do empirical tests. You cannot make predictions based on observable phenomena. It is more like theology than phrenology.

[Rob Instigator]

phrenology is not about the brain, but about the random bumps and shape of our skulls, which has nothing to do with brain function.

[dead_battery]

rab and tulsa

i cant even

[dead_battery]

you know what todays prole needs? not paranoia or theology, which both of you offer in spades while you level your accusations at economics - todays low income or no income person needs MORE FINANCIALIZATION - they need safe reputable companies making investment packages available to them. they need this more than almost anything else.

how it works today is that ANYONE involved in the finance sector - despite the myriad scams, liars, hucksters and max kiesers - who makes a living, and has to abide by the law and can be sued if they do the wrong thing - and who is involved in investing - has zero time or interest in low income people because the commission they get off helping them invest is so tiny as to make taking them as clients nearly impossible.

the financial sector has abandoned the poor to the drugs sector and junk food and entertainment sectors which just harvest their bodies for profit and addiction.

finance and economics could be the greatest weapon a poor person today could find to better themselves and their families and by extension society. mysticism, religion and everything else is just entertainment.

[Rob Instigator]

Old story. Banks have been fucking those with less than $10,000 in their savings account for decades. The stock market is legalized gambling, and it is rigged to steal from the lower 90% and pay out to the top 10% with the most money already.

free enterprise is not the same thing as economics.

[dead_battery]

ok - but it is still possible to make money if you are sensible and not a raging douche who believes fiat currency will collapse and glenn beck sponsored gold coins will save you.

its just confusing, difficult and doesnt give the I WANT MONEY NOW LOL GIMME! people a good return. its set up to take from suckers like that. greedy short attention spans who want to win and think sneering or working out the con is the shortest route to success.

the fact is, its an inhuman game and we have human brains and a psychology set up to make us fail. but the fact is you CAN make money by investing and it is a sensible thing to do, provided you follow sound advice, and take a lot of time and effort to carefully consider every step.

we're in a zero sum game, you might aswell game the system that games your body since there is no other choice. retreat is no longer possible.

also, cynicism today functions as the purest conformity (havent you read zizek and all those twats?)

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Old story. Banks have been fucking those with less than $10,000 in their savings account for decades.

my credit union gives me free everything as long as i keep a minimum balance of $250 across all accounts (LOL).

it's a non-profit owned by members and it has no reason to "be fucking" with any of us.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

The stock market is legalized gambling, and it is rigged to steal from the lower 90% and pay out to the top 10% with the most money already.

you misunderstand risk. risk is unavoidable. there is no place that is not gambling.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

free enterprise is not the same thing as economics.

those ignorant of economics are incapable of successful free enterprise

i mean, the ignorant are fucked in every possible way, not just in business-- they spend money they don't have in things they don't need, they get into debt without end and pay interest through the nose, they pay fees for everything from cashing checks to late-payment credit/utility fees, and when they purchase financial products they purchase the worst kind of them (e.g. whole life insurance).

ignorance is an illness and it needs to be cured b,ut as long as people keep blaming some invisible power for their ignorance they will never be able to take charge of their own finances. and they will die in misery.

[dead_battery]

i know next to nothing about economics, because i like most people have never been taught ANYTHING on the subject. in the uk there are NO economics classes until it becomes an option at age 16. the government is introducing finance classes for all which IMO is an excellent idea.

you cannot opt out of this game, im sorry if you dont like that fact, but it is a fact. you cant retreat to nature and get out of the system. the answer is not to reject it because you are too confused, daunted and ignorant and fear being scammed, the answer is to think and do research.

there is NOTHING wrong with trying to better yourself in this way. none of us chose the system we live in. the bullshit myth of the free individual who coasts on his cultural capital and posturing is the biggest lie the entertainment industry ever sold us. people really need education on money management and understanding about how the system works, or else they are doomed to get scammed or left in the dark anyway.

most people i know dont get that its a zero sum game and that chanting this ideology to themselves about working harder and thinking more positively wont turn them into a celebrity. they are convinced that its entirely subjective, because all the figures in the media that they imagine are rich present this constructed lie convincing them of precisely that, because thats what they want and what sells.

there's nothing wrong with instrumental reason, in fact, i think at this point its more ethical than anything else. try using it on yourself and everyone you know! see if getting realistic in those terms about what people will actually do, how long they'll live and what the future will actually hold doesn't help you out more than any of the vacuous narcissism that's sold as the key to freedom.

[dead_battery]

thats my (largely ignorant) advice anyway

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

i i like most people have never been taught ANYTHING on the subject.

same here. i had to learn the hard way and do the research on my own. pointing fingers at "the man" never did a single thing for me except absolve me of any and all personal responsibility-- clearly not a good way to operate in the world.