[!@#$%!]

well i dont think for a minute that if hamas had full control of gaza they'd not fully militarize it right away.

for the naive and misinformed, a reminder: hamas is the palestinian branch of the muslim brotherhood, which wants to reestablish the caliphate through jihad.

here's their official website:
http://www.ikhwanweb.com/

enjoy :/

[Daddylikes]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

the very goals they seek are wrong,
1. Just cause. This is clearly the most important rule; it sets the tone for everything which follows. A state may launch a war only for the right reason. The just causes most frequently mentioned include: self-defence from external attack; the defence of others from such; the protection of innocents from brutal, aggressive regimes; and punishment for a grievous wrongdoing which remains uncorrected. Vitoria suggested that all the just causes be subsumed under the one category of “a wrong received.” Walzer, and most modern just war theorists, speak of the one just cause for resorting to war being the resistance of aggression. Aggression is the use of armed force in violation of someone else's basic rights.
2. Right intention. A state must intend to fight the war only for the sake of its just cause. Having the right reason for launching a war is not enough: the actual motivation behind the resort to war must also be morally appropriate. Ulterior motives, such as a power or land grab, or irrational motives, such as revenge or ethnic hatred, are ruled out. The only right intention allowed is to see the just cause for resorting to war secured and consolidated. If another intention crowds in, moral corruption sets in. International law does not include this rule, probably because of the evidentiary difficulties involved in determining a state's intent. "

You defined their intention as:



That is definition of terror, which is not a just cause nor a good intention.

Their intention clearly isn't to "fuck up gaza". Their intention is to have a peaceful, vibrant, safe Israeli state.

When Hammas attacks Israeli innocents, they are interfering with the peace, vibrancy and safety of the Israeli state.

These attacks are intended to send the message not to interefere with the safety of Israel.

That's what I meant when I said "fuck with us and we will fuck you up".

Israel's aim is true and justified.

(unless you don't think that Israel deserves safety and vibrancy...)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Daddylikes

Their intention clearly isn't to "fuck up gaza". Their intention is to have a peaceful, vibrant, safe Israeli state.

When Hammas attacks Israeli innocents, they are interfering with the peace, vibrancy and safety of the Israeli state.

These attacks are intended to send the message not to interefere with the safety of Israel.

That's what I meant when I said "fuck with us and we will fuck you up".

Israel's aim is true and justified.

(unless you don't think that Israel deserves safety and vibrancy...)

yes, a peaceful Israeli state at the expense of Gaza, I'm sorry but the massive retaliations by Israel over the past twenty years clearly reveal that Israel wants no peace, as they are doing many things to the contrary. Do they honestly think that blowing a bunch of shit up and killing hundreds of people in Gaza will STOP violence? Violence only begets violences.

Do they honestly think that laying siege against gaza so that food and toilet paper become contraband will stop the violence? It will only compound it, which it has.

The problem is that Israel acts like all of the rockets come from a legitimate government, which they do not. MANY of the rockets from Palestine are not coordinated by Hamas, but are launched by pissed off, unaffiliated militants, and even if they utterly annihilate all of Hamas and the Gaza strip, some pissed off youth will continue the rockets and carry on as ever. Israel needs to find a new solution, excessive military force has not succeed once in the past fifty years..

Israel pursues the same policy which the US did in Vietnam, brute force, and look where the fuck that got us? Millions of dead vietnamese and a region littered by unexploded ordinances which continue to maim and kill innocent children generations removed from the conflict.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

"what is wrong, with this current generation, can't they stop living in the old time inspiration, what is the meaning of this all? when will the weather be making its last call? when well be the end of it all? now that your back is against the wall...

hatred and scorn has torn us apart, sufferation has left some living with a broken heart, corruption is slowly making lots of progress, because mankind has been living in a mess

corruption is tearing us to pieces today, corruption is taking the world away..
sufferation is playing its part, and now mankind its getting hard.."

the Ethiopians

[Daddylikes]

Maybe everyone should have thought about that before 1948 when Israel was invaded from all sides.

Israeli peace doesn't have to come at the expense of Gaza. If Gazan citizens would stop their senseless violence, then Israelis would be more than happy to help them out.

You can not assert that Gazan's have the right to bomb Israel without provocation, or can you?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Daddylikes

Maybe everyone should have thought about that before 1948 when Israel was invaded from all sides.

Israeli peace doesn't have to come at the expense of Gaza. If Gazan citizens would stop their senseless violence, then Israelis would be more than happy to help them out.

You can not assert that Gazan's have the right to bomb Israel without provocation, or can you?

Maybe Israel should have thought of that before they invaded the land in the first place? See we can play this game for centuries, but eye for an eye leaves us all blinded.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i dont know what this revenge by caca means, but here's the irony:

hamas has the wherewithal to smuggle missiles, weapons, and the such-- but no flour?

This is easily the most brilliant observation made thus far. It's so obvious that it never occured to me.

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Maybe Israel should have thought of that before they invaded the land in the first place? See we can play this game for centuries, but eye for an eye leaves us all blinded.

So, should we blame the chicken or the egg? According to Such, we ought to blame whichever one is Israel.

[Confucious is sex]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Maybe Israel should have thought of that before they invaded the land in the first place? See we can play this game for centuries, but eye for an eye leaves us all blinded.

It's not an invasion if you live there; it is not possible to invade a place where one already is. Or are you defending the Canaanites now?

[pbradley]

Hear hear!

[Stijn]

Originally Posted by evollove

This is easily the most brilliant observation made thus far. It's so obvious that it never occured to me.

Hamas is no fully equiped terror unit...
They use these DIY- rockets, containing compost, sugar ... fireworks basically (when compared with israels means)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Confucious is sex

It's not an invasion if you live there; it is not possible to invade a place where one already is. Or are you defending the Canaanites now?

How many jews lived there before 1948 and then after, and you have the nerve to NOT call that an invasion? Ideologies confuse things.

Israel is an occupying force, but I do not feel that they will ever leave, so I have gotten over that fact, they will be in Israel for ever, so that is that.

However, that DOES NOT GIVE THE ISRAELIS the right to do whatever the fuck they feel like, war has rules, and if you fuck up, war comes back to burn you. Fire is not impartial, not even to them that burn fire.

I am not here to debate whether or not the state of Israel should exist, I hardly doubt millions of people will leave where they have been for sixty years.. however, if Israel would like militants to stop lobbing rockets into their peripheral towns, than perhaps Israel should not stoke the flames with more bombs and death.

While Israelis are dying, the casualty ratio has been anywhere from 10 to 1 too 100 to 1, and that is just fucking disgusting if you ask me. Nothing justifies it, period, and regardless of the ideology behind Israel's existence, they have NO FUCKING RIGHT to kill so many folks, even in the name of defending themselves. You do not have the right to inflict whole-sale slaughter in the name of defense, that is not defense, it is an offense.

[ihateyouth]

This war has been going on for ages and "supporting" either side means you agree with war and death (like a football game).

It's obvious, as it has been FOR AGES, that Israel is richer and abuses its power.

This war cannot be won. It can only get worse. I don't think the U.S.A can do anything, Obama is not a messiah and this is beyond woodwill, human rights or politics.

Let's not joke about it like it was superbowl.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Stijn

Hamas is no fully equiped terror unit...
They use these DIY- rockets, containing compost, sugar ... fireworks basically (when compared with israels means)

holy fuck, no, katyusha rockets arent "diy fireworks"-- they're deadly weapons not to be fucked with

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha

i hope you're not proposing that this branch of the Muslim Brotherhood gets armed with anthrax, plutonium, ICBMs and strategic bombers...

[evollove]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

How many jews lived there before 1948 and then after?

Before 1948? I dunno. A million or so. There were a bunch of illegals, so it's hard to pin down an exact number.

In 2008? About 5.5 million.

[ihateyouth]

IGNORANCE.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by ihateyouth

IGNORANCE.

INDEED

Originally Posted by ihateyouth

It's obvious, as it has been FOR AGES, that Israel is richer and abuses its power.

Man I'm so sick of this shit. The Palestinians are surrounded by their supposed Arab bretheren who, unless events like the recent Israeli bombings occur, don't do a fucking thing for them. Even now what are they doing, other than releasing predictable sound-bites?

Presumably, if the Palestinians recieved the assistance from the other Arab nations in the area that one would reasonably expect, they would: 1.) Wipe out the Jews, then, 2.) Attack their neighbors to regain the land they lost post WWII (though, if we have to blame anyone, let's blame the Brits for this). I'm sure a number of nations would like to see 1., but it's 2. that causes so many countries to give a stiff middle finger to the Palestinians.

But I'm just guessing here. Maybe it's just inner-Arab-world prejudice. Palestinians are regarded by the other Arab nations like the US regards Mexico, or Japan regards China. From what I understand, no one really likes them or has much faith that they can do much on their own.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by evollove

INDEED



Man I'm so sick of this shit. The Palestinians are surrounded by their supposed Arab bretheren who, unless events like the recent Israeli bombings occur, don't do a fucking thing for them. Even now what are they doing, other than releasing predictable sound-bites?

Presumably, if the Palestinians recieved the assistance from the other Arab nations in the area that one would reasonably expect, they would: 1.) Wipe out the Jews, then, 2.) Attack their neighbors to regain the land they lost post WWII (though, if we have to blame anyone, let's blame the Brits for this). I'm sure a number of nations would like to see 1., but it's 2. that causes so many countries to give a stiff middle finger to the Palestinians.

But I'm just guessing here. Maybe it's just inner-Arab-world prejudice. Palestinians are regarded by the other Arab nations like the US regards Mexico, or Japan regards China. From what I understand, no one really likes them or has much faith that they can do much on their own.

that maybe correct, but how does any of that vindicate the military operations of Israel? It doesn't, Israel uses cop-outs like no other, but in these circumstances, lives are lost by the dozen..

[fugazifan]

so they started a ground assault.
its fucked up. i hope soldiers dont get killed. and more palestinians...

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Moshe

Well Israel did send fuel, gas, food, medicine into Gaza while the Palestinians continued to fire rockets towards Israel.

If Israel gave them the means to get all this stuff for themsleves rather than rationing them i bet they wouldn't be firing rockets at anyone.

[RdTv]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

If Israel gave them the means to get all this stuff for themsleves rather than rationing them i bet they wouldn't be firing rockets at anyone.

As much as perhaps the greater Palestine would agree with you, there unfortunately are going to be radicals that will counteract any well-intentioned gestures by Israel. Then again Israel has a penchant towards exacting unnecessary payback.