[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

what a joke!

i see you aren't familiar with who Hillary Clinton actually is. if anything the reason conservatives have always loathed her is more or less the bitch gets shit done yo

[Drjohnrock]

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk

Your arguments are ludicrous. Bush should have been impeached by Congress and tried in the Senate while he was still in office, then criminally prosecuted after hos removal from office. Trump could only appoint his special prosecutor (whose first duty would be to conduct an investigation) once he had become president, at which point Hillary would no longer be a candidate. And how Banana-Republic-like is it for the US to have a succession of Bushes and Clintons for president over thirty years?

Given the murky circumstances surrounding his birth and the suddenness of his appearance on the public scene seemingly from nowhere, Obama's citizenship was bound to be open to question. He ultimately proved his claim with the long-form birth certificate, but it took years.

Finally, I'm not convinced of the Russian provenance of the email hack; it seems awfully convenient to blame them as well as a comfortable fit with the propaganda supporting the current war drive.

Only one of us is being ludicrous, and it isn't me. I agreed with and quoted what you said about Obama pursuing the crimes of Dubya's administration. Now it's he should have been impeached while still in office--as if that was ever going to happen. You're engaging in a lot of double-talk.

As for Obama's "murkiness" and "appearance on the public scene seemingly from out of nowhere", let's examine just part of his resume: graduate of Columbia University; graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School; president of the Harvard Law Review; taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago School Of Law; served three terms in the Illinois state senate; served in the United States Senate; gave a very well received keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He didn't exactly sneak into Amurica by being smuggled on a banana boat.

I said foreign interference in the US presidential election. I didn't specify Russia although US intelligence organizations have concluded Russia was involved. I'll take their word over yours. Besides, Assange (not going to bother seeing if I spelled the name right) is from Australia, not the US.

You must be really bored to troll like this. Get a hobby or something.

[PLips]

Settlers of Catan is a pretty good bored game

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk

And how Banana-Republic-like is it for the US to have a succession of Bushes and Clintons for president over thirty years?.

Tonite after the Alfred Smith dinner Hillary heartily greeted Kissinger.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by Drjohnrock

I didn't specify Russia although US intelligence organizations have concluded Russia was involved. .

That's not true. DCI James Clapper, who lied to Congress about the NSA, released a statement that is being used to provide this propaganda.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/...ector-national

The statement clearly says: "However, we are not now in a position to attribute this activity to the Russian Government."

See this analysis:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-1...ly%E2%80%A6a-f

There are also intelligence people who think this is a hack by US intelligence who HATE the Clintons.

Anything to deflect attention from the fact the Clinton has no respect for basic cybersecurity, and she's supposed to be head of the country.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

not voting, and if someone held a gun to my head i'll vote for Gary Johnson just to say I voted.

Then you don't have any business participating in any discussion about any of this.

Also, if this is true, you're an idiot.

[PLips]

 

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Then you don't have any business participating in any discussion about any of this.

Also, if this is true, you're an idiot.

hold on that isn't fair i ain't voting for shit either

[evollove]

Is Trump really a serious contender for the Republican nomination?

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

No.

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Haha no

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Steamrolling in 3 out of dozens of primaries? Its the primaries people! Lets at least wait until auper Tuesday

etc......

Nothing personal, but I haven't taken anything you've written in this entire thread particularly seriously. You're wrong as often as Trump is. Now it turns out you're not even voting? Just wordswordwwords

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by evollove

Is Trump really a serious contender for the Republican nomination?







etc......

Nothing personal, but I haven't taken anything you've written in this entire thread particularly seriously. You're wrong as often as Trump is. Now it turns out you're not even voting? Just wordswordwwords

haha whatever you say boss, if it makes you feel intellectually or morally superior to dismiss my opinions or analysis fine. we will see in three weeks who is wrong as often or right.

so someone who couldn't vote like a felon, their opinions are just wordswordswords too?

[ilduclo]

I'm not sure if I posted this before, but it's pretty germane. Discussion of people who

1)don't know shit
2)say they do
3)complain all the fucking time!

http://harpers.org/archive/2016/05/t...ynical-people/

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

awwwwe how cute i have a No Homers Allowed fan club.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

hold on that isn't fair i ain't voting for shit either

I don't really mean that people who abstain from voting aren't "allowed" to talk about political or social issues. Sorry for the hyperbole.

But I definitely believe that voting is a privilege (not a "right" in the true sense of the word). That is, it is not inalienable. It CAN be taken away (and is taken away from millions of people every day). Millions the world over are not born with the freedom to do it, and in reality millions never know that freedom.
So it's not a "right" ... it's a priviledge. And it's absolutely a duty for people with that priviledge to exercise it, not just for ourselves but for the people in the world who do not have that freedom, in the hope that maybe someday they will.

I also believe that if you're going to complain about politics, or insult people for their political choices, you'd goddamn better well be doing your civic fucking duty. Or, rather, if you're going to yell and scream about (for example) marijuana legality, you'd better be willing to cast a vote about it. If you're going to insult people for the way they choose to vote then you'd better man up and be a living breathing example of what you claim others should be. If you hated Obama, don't be a pussy... get out there ad vote for someone who's going to do something differently!

One can't just sit back and yell from the sidelines. Well, one definitely can, but it's Fucking selfish and absurd. If you're not going to get in the game, don't yell at the ref.

If you're going to choose to be a person who doesn't exercise their *priviledge* to vote, you're choosing an apolitical life. Own that choice, and Bitch about sports or whatever instead.

Now, that said, I fully support voter abstinence from anyone who is intellectually unequipped to make a truly informed decision. If you don't know shit about Baseball, don't make an ass of yourself screaming and shouting at the World Series.
People who can't be bothered to research candidates or inquire about platforms and policies really SHOULDN'T vote. It's an insult to the system and a misuse of a priviledge.

If you know enough to make an informed decision, but simply don't want to because you "couldn't live with yourself" if you voted for Hilllary, even though you loathe Trump, then I don't have much respect for you on this particular topic, and I'd wager you think a bit too much about yourself and have a mythologized idea of your own significance.

Basically, if you're just an idiot ... then damn right, don't vote. If you're not necessarily an idiot but you don't know anything about either candidate because you spend literally all of your time being a stay at home dad or something, then sure... don't vote.

But if you don't do your part to keep Donald Trump and dangerous lecherous fatcat pigs like him out of positions of power AND YOU KNOW BETTER, then fuck you. You're a lazy waste of meat. You certainly have no business complaining about the results afterward, and I probably wouldn't hang out with you because that shit frankly makes me sick.

Of all the years to opt out, this is not the one. You either March your ass into that booth and cast a vote against Donald pussy groping Trump, or congratulations you're a fuckwad.

[Severian]

Funny story... ^ this is the exact lecture I used to give whenever I subbed for a government class. I'm a genuine O-Captiain-My-Captain shaper of young ass minds.

[Severian]

And SFAD, I'm not getting on your case, and when I say "you" I'm talking about the Royal you ... ok that's not a thing. But I'm talking about people in general. Or pepper green if you prefer.

I do hope your ass votes though.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

I don't really mean that people who abstain from voting aren't "allowed" to talk about political or social issues. Sorry for the hyperbole.

My comments apply to some other comments more so than yours, I know you are not quite as politically crass.

But I definitely believe that voting is a privilege (not a "right" in the true sense of the word). That is, it is not inalienable. It CAN be taken away (and is taken away from millions of people every day). Millions the world over are not born with the freedom to do it, and in reality millions never know that freedom.
So it's not a "right" ... it's a priviledge. And it's absolutely a duty for people with that priviledge to exercise it, not just for ourselves but for the people in the world who do not have that freedom, in the hope that maybe someday they will.

Yet a fundamental ontology of the premise of democracy is that one's vote for their conscience or what they believe in. If the candidates, or parties, or platforms, or polices, or propositions are found to be disagreeable, it is no longer democracy if one's are intimidated to vote for such! See what I mean? It becomes a kind of tyranny on its own, this pressure to conform. Further its a total cop out for those who "lose" an election to blame or intimidate those who voted differently or didn't vote, because the problem is not that those voted differently or didn't vote, THE PROBLEM IS THE PARTIES DIDN'T DEVELOP A CANDIDATE, POLICY, OR PROPOSITION THAT CONVINCED THE CONSTIUENCY TO VOTE!!!!

The job of politicians is to convince people like me to vote, and if I am not convinced they didn't do their job. If any of y'all who support one candidate or policy couldn't convince me to vote for it, y'all didn't you your job simple as that. Don't get mad at or blame me for YOUR OWN POLITICAL FAILURES. its not my fault for being honest, and if y'all hold it against me haha that is totally your mistake.

I DON'T HOLD IT AGAINST ANYONE WHEN THEY VOTE FOR SOMETHING OR SOMEONE, so don't hold it against me if I choose not to for the sake of my own political conscience, it is my right to protest or boycott a vote just as much as it is yours to vote!

I also believe that if you're going to complain about politics, or insult people for their political choices, you'd goddamn better well be doing your civic fucking duty.

If I ever insulted someone in a personal way for their politics I apologize sincerely. However, sorry y'all, but to try and quell or silence political speech, opinions, or voice simply because it disagrees with your own view or approach including voting or not is some alt-right fascist bullshit!

Or, rather, if you're going to yell and scream about (for example) marijuana legality, you'd better be willing to cast a vote about it.

Yes and no, for example even if I personally don't vote for Prop 64 here in California, I can use my own political voice to discuss it, analyze its merits, and possibly convince others to vote for or against it based on my opinions. THIS IS HOW POLITICS WORK PEOPLE. DUH

If you're going to insult people for the way they choose to vote then you'd better man up and be a living breathing example of what you claim others should be.

Yes and no, though personally i thin personal level insults have no business in politics (insults against voters that is, not necessarily candidates or policies those are open game)

If you hated Obama, don't be a pussy... get out there ad vote for someone who's going to do something differently!

And if none of the candidates available would do anything different then what?

One can't just sit back and yell from the sidelines. Well, one definitely can, but it's Fucking selfish and absurd. If you're not going to get in the game, don't yell at the ref.

maybe it is selfish and absurd to think that you can bully, badger, or harangue people into voting for things they don't agree with or believe in??

See y'all ever think through your attacks on non-voters, if I said i was not voting because i was lazy, fine, fuck with me, but if I say I am not voting because i don't believe in what there is to vote for? Why attack that?

Doesn't seem fair to me. Further to try and silence my political voice because I don't believe in the voting options is equally unfair and needlessly hostile.

Whateverz y'all, go through this every election, doesn't hurt my feelings but it seems to make those who vote feel some kind of way which I find ironic

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

The job of politicians is to convince people like me to vote, and if I am not convinced they didn't do their job. If any of y'all who support one candidate or policy couldn't convince me to vote for it, y'all didn't you your job simple as that. Don't get mad at or blame me for YOUR OWN POLITICAL FAILURES. its not my fault for being honest, and if y'all hold it against me haha that is totally your mistake.

This is actually a damn good point, and I never thought about it like this because I myself have always been a voter. You'd have to convince me NOT to vote. The process has been normalized for me to the extent that I wouldn't consider not participating unless there were some extreme extenuating circumstances. But I see what you mean.

Also, I want to clarify that I'm talking about voting for president here. Yes, I will argue all day and night with anyone with a soul that voting AGAINST TRUMP is more imprtant brat whatever's going on in their fragile little hearts, and that not voting against him when they clearly hate him is pretty much indefensible.

BUT... I am not going to jump down someone's throat for not voting for every proposition, every little city and county position. That's not what I'm talking about here. I should have specified that I'm talking about the presidential election, and this presidential election in particular.

My own rule when I'm in the booth is that if I don't know enough about the proposition, or the candidate for judge, or whatever.. or if I can't develop a satisfactory picture of what the consequences of voting YES or NO or For this guy or that guy will be, then I skip it. I certainly don't vote on issues that I don't understand or am not comfortable taking a position on, and I would never dream of trying to bully someone into voting for everything all the time. That's insane.

So yeah.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

If you're going to choose to be a person who doesn't exercise their *priviledge* to vote, you're choosing an apolitical life. Own that choice, and Bitch about sports or whatever instead.

Not true at all. Just choosing not vote, has nothing to do with not having an opinion too.

Now, that said, I fully support voter abstinence from anyone who is intellectually unequipped to make a truly informed decision. If you don't know shit about Baseball, don't make an ass of yourself screaming and shouting at the World Series.

Is that meant to be as barbed as it came across? So y'all assume only those who are too stupid to vote are those who don't vote? Ironically sometimes the opposite is true and only the stupid turn out

People who can't be bothered to research candidates or inquire about platforms and policies really SHOULDN'T vote. It's an insult to the system and a misuse of a priviledge.

well that definitely is true.

If you know enough to make an informed decision, but simply don't want to because you "couldn't live with yourself" if you voted for Hilllary, even though you loathe Trump, then I don't have much respect for you on this particular topic, and I'd wager you think a bit too much about yourself and have a mythologized idea of your own significance.

Its fair you to not have respect, but personally I think that is extreme position. Why not respect people's political decision even if not to vote? I mean, you would support them whoever they vote for yes? So how is a non-vote any different? Further it has nothing to do with personal aggrandizing or ego, its about people sincerely voting or not voting their according to their conscience and what they believe. If you can't respect that, maybe you don't know what the word respect even really means to begin with!

Basically, if you're just an idiot ... then damn right, don't vote. If you're not necessarily an idiot but you don't know anything about either candidate because you spend literally all of your time being a stay at home dad or something, then sure... don't vote.

fair enough

But if you don't do your part to keep Donald Trump and dangerous lecherous fatcat pigs like him out of positions of power AND YOU KNOW BETTER, then fuck you.

whatever yo, fuck you too. does it make you feel any better? I'm thinking probably not..

You're a lazy waste of meat.

Nope, not lazy at all, but thank you for the personal insults. Fantastic political strategy there, that certainly will convince me to vote now if I wasn't convinced before.. and folks honestly wonder why our current politics are so fucking toxic, LOOK IN THE MIRROR PEOPLE, its certainly not my fault.

You certainly have no business complaining about the results afterward, and I probably wouldn't hang out with you because that shit frankly makes me sick.

Better go get some Peptobismol homie for realz

Of all the years to opt out, this is not the one. You either March your ass into that booth and cast a vote against Donald pussy groping Trump, or congratulations you're a fuckwad.

yeah that will teach me.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

BUT... I am not going to jump down someone's throat for not voting for every proposition, every little city and county position. That's not what I'm talking about here. I should have specified that I'm talking about the presidential election, and this presidential election in particular.

Ironically I feel the opposite way, the only true voice people have is in local and state elections for actual propositions and ballot measures, in other words voting for actual policy, voting for representatives is just the same old song and dance. So personally i think people should ONLY vote for propositions and ballot measures or at the least turn out for such IF they agree with or believe in what is on the ballot.

[Drjohnrock]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

The job of politicians is to convince people like me to vote, and if I am not convinced they didn't do their job. If any of y'all who support one candidate or policy couldn't convince me to vote for it, y'all didn't you your job simple as that. Don't get mad at or blame me for YOUR OWN POLITICAL FAILURES. its not my fault for being honest, and if y'all hold it against me haha that is totally your mistake.

Fair enough, to a certain extent. But I can honestly say that ever since I reached voting age, there hasn't been one candidate I have voted for that I was totally comfortable with, or agreed with on every issue. Chris Christie is mostly useless as a politician, but he said something in this vein that's worth repeating, and I paraphrase: if you're looking for someone who agrees with you 100% of the time, look in a mirror. None of us are perfect, especially politicians, but voting for someone who is imperfect (or in the case of Drumpf, voting against someone who's a total sociopath) isn't selling out, or betraying your ideals. It's exercising, IMO, good judgment.

I don't know how far a politician has to go to convince you that you should vote for him/her, or for/against a ballot issue, SFAD. Again, politicians sure as hell aren't perfect. But as I've said before, lesser of two evils is a very valid concept. If nothing else, HRC won't appoint Scalia types to the SCOTUS, which Whiny Grab-A-Puss has promised to do. I don't think you want 1, 2, 3, or 4 Scalia types appointed, SFAD. I hope you will reconsider not voting. I assume you're registered to vote (hope I'm right about that).