[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Drjohnrock

Fair enough, to a certain extent...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Drjohnrock again.

its not about finding a candidate you 100% agree with so much as those you don't have a fundamental and possibly even existential disagreement with. see?

Indeed i also find it totally ironic that y'all are attacking and dismissing me meanwhile I could actually be an ally to y'all even if I don't vote because if you really don't want Trump to win, then I can help you by doing your job. Even if I am not going to vote, the criticism that I express about Trump has the potential to convince some not to vote for him, or others to vote for Overlord Hillary if that is how they feel. Further, if I am critical of Overlord Hillary that is my right, would you rather we have a fraudulent election where we just vote for people without vetting them, without critically investigating their platform, policies, and history. Indeed, I shared a great Frontline that at least !@#$%!, whether he agrees with my politics or not, found informative and beneficial. See, he didn't just dismiss me outright and he learned something from what i shared, just like even if i am not voting I have learned from and enjoyed quite a few links y'all have posted here. That is why I sincerely don't understand why I am the bad guy here, what, do y'all think my not voting is honestly going to change the election outcome? REALLY? COME ON....

 

[ilduclo]

Originally Posted by Severian

BUT... I am not going to jump down someone's throat for not voting for every proposition, every little city and county position. That's not what I'm talking about here. I should have specified that I'm talking about the presidential election, and this presidential election in particular.

the down ticket elections are pretty important, though. "All politics is local", my ticket has gas and weed tax increases, extra money for veterans, allowing my local uni to manage their own investments, a couple of critical judgeships, fed and local reps and senators. If one doesn't know enough to vote on ALL of the choices, I think it is imperative to educate oneself to be able to decide with some sort of knowledge.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ilduclo again.

as a Californian, literally almost all of the most positive things in my life, government related, came from local and state ballot measures and propositions.

[ilduclo]

 

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Ironically I feel the opposite way, the only true voice people have is in local and state elections for actual propositions and ballot measures, in other words voting for actual policy, voting for representatives is just the same old song and dance. So personally i think people should ONLY vote for propositions and ballot measures or at the least turn out for such IF they agree with or believe in what is on the ballot.

That's not the opposite of what I'm saying.
Well, saying people should ONLY vote for propositions and ballot measures is close to the opposite of what I'm saying, but it's not the opposite.

I'm saying: there's always a prop or a local judicial election that I don't know the first thing about. Usually I know about props and vote accordingly, but if I don't know about these two dudes vying for a circuit court judge position, I'm going to leave that bubble blank.

I'm not going to weigh in on the election of someone who may someday — heaven forbid — be in charge of deciding my fate in court. What if I just vote for the dude whose name is the funniest sounding and he ends up being a fascist fuck who sends me to jail for some outstanding parking ticket?

That's what I'm saying. I'm not throwing in on something I don't know anything about, because if I don't know anything about it, how do I know I'm voting the way I'd want to vote if I did know about it? Granted this is only a problem if I don't pay attention to certain things, but Ive lived in HIGHLY populated urban areas before where you can't possibly know every goddamn candidate for comptroller or alderman.

To say you should ONLY vote for the local stuff though? Well... like I said, that's not technically the OPPOSITE of what I was saying, but I certainly don't agree with that at all. I do not feel that nobody should vote for legislators, reps, Presidents. I don't think you feel that way either, but when you say people should ONLY vote local, it kind of sounds like you're saying that.

Anyway, I more or less agree with what you're saying, which is that it's important to vote for the local issues, props, measures that you feel strongly about, and that affect you. I agree. And that's what I do. But I also think that people should become educated about presidential candidates and vote in those elections as well. Unless they're idiots. Or unless they're voting for absurd reasons (not liking the way Mcaine holds his arm or whatever).

I think that if you dislike Donald Trump and think he's dangerous and scary, you should fucking vote against his ass. You should do what you can. If Hillary terrifies you that deeply after thoroughly researching her platform, then vote against her. If someone inspires you, vote FOR that person. But if you hate Trump and don't want to see him become president, but you can't bring yourself to stand in line for 15 minutes to help keep him from becoming president, then my personal feeling is that you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop waiting for some Prince to come sweep you off your feet.

It is not a candidates job to sweet talk a citizen into getting off their ass and voting. This isn't a goddamn courtship. It's a (good) cabdidate's job to push for a platform that will change people's lives for the better. I don't think we as citizens are supposed to be wooed by candidates. We're supposed to consider what candidate is best for the country based on our own ideas of what progress is.

Long story short, it's your job to vote if you care. It's not Hillary's job to lure you out of the house.

There are so many things wrong with everything about our lives, it's unreal.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Long story short, it's your job to vote if you care. It's not Hillary's job to lure you out of the house.

actually that PRECISELY and EXACTLY what her job is, its an election, DUH.

frankly if you support her its your job too if you believe i should vote for her and so far the combination of personal insults and attacks against me, my level of concern or intellect certainly isn't going to convince me one fucking bit.

politics fail on your part

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

tonight i am invited to speak at a protest rally against the Ethiopian government at USC.. do you think my job is to badger and harangue people into supporting my political opinions there? do you honestly think that would convince anyone there to support the political cause i believe in or would rally people to support the political coalitions i support within Ethiopia?

doubtful

[The Soup Nazi]

This deserves its own thread, but since the issue of cyberwarfare has come up so prominently in the election campaign, I decided to post it here:

CYBERATTACKS LAMF!

 

[tesla69]

I'm surprised Trump hasn't gotten hold of this story about the half dozen teens murdered this month around Brentwood NY, on Long Island, related to MS-13 (code for central america immigrants) gang violence. I'm surprised its not a bigger story in terms of teen culture, or maybe it is.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2838750

http://abc7ny.com/news/remains-of-a-...twood/1565030/

http://patch.com/new-york/westislip/...entwood-police

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

actually that PRECISELY and EXACTLY what her job is, its an election, DUH.

frankly if you support her its your job too if you believe i should vote for her and so far the combination of personal insults and attacks against me, my level of concern or intellect certainly isn't going to convince me one fucking bit.

politics fail on your part

Ah - no. It is not the job of a presidential candidate to *dazzle* or to *wow* people into voting booths. Too many of them try to operate like that, and that's how we get promises that are impossible to keep and voters who vote for big personalities instead of issues.

You are not a passive part of the process. You should be proudly voting either in favori of what you care about, or against what you know is dangerous to the world.

Yeah it's an election. It's not a blockbuster movie. You should consider it your duty to participate and you should take it seriously. If we only voted for flashy rock star candidates, we'd vote for Trump.

A DUH. Fail! Politics fail! (If that wasn't embarrassing for you then... that's too bad)

You mad about the hip-hop thread? Don't be. But don't be a dick about it. You're acting like American citizenship is like sitting in a strip club. Lap dance w/ touching or no vote! Way to joyfully shirk your responsibility.

[Severian]

And I'm not trying to get you to "support" Hillary. I'm trying to get you to do your part against Trump.

If you're not willing, you might as well be a Trump supporter.

Your level of apathy about the direction of the nation must be on fucking HGH if you'd rather do nothing than fill in a box to fight Trump. That's goddamn sickening. What battle are you winning there exactly?

(Also I'd like to remind you again that you said "duh!" And "politics fail!" Just in case it didn't stick the first time. Yeah. You said those things. Way to be.)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

And I'm not trying to get you to "support" Hillary. I'm trying to get you to do your part against Trump.

you talking in circles. if you want me to vote Hillary you need to convince of Hillary's merits and positions, period. this is how it works. its not new.

If you're not willing, you might as well be a Trump supporter.

nope and than is being very disingenuous and politically lazy of you to say.

Your level of apathy about the direction of the nation must be on fucking HGH if you'd rather do nothing than fill in a box to fight Trump.

nope quite the opposite i love my country so much that i refuse to give a mandate to a power i don't believe in.

hat's goddamn sickening.

what sickens me is you have the nerve to blame me. ha!

What battle are you winning there exactly?

(Also I'd like to remind you again that you said "duh!" And "politics fail!" Just in case it didn't stick the first time. Yeah. You said those things. Way to be.)

i am winning the battle for my own personal conscience and peace of mind. remember i have the right to make my own choices, indeed is probably the ONLY right i or anyone actually have
i did and i will reiterate again if you can't convince the merits of your candidate that is a politics fail. duh.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Ah - no. It is not the job of a presidential candidate to *dazzle* or to *wow* people into voting booths. Too many of them try to operate like that, and that's how we get promises that are impossible to keep and voters who vote for big personalities instead of issues.

again, yes its precisely their job, they want my vote don't they? you seem to want it yet you havent spent even ONE SENTENCE extolling the policy reasons i should support Hillary. not even once..

You are not a passive part of the process. You should be proudly voting either in favori of what you care about, or against what you know is dangerous to the world.

no i am not passive at all, indeed by using MY voice i am active and expressing my own power.

Yeah it's an election. It's not a blockbuster movie. You should consider it your duty to participate and you should take it seriously. If we only voted for flashy rock star candidates, we'd vote for Trump.

my duty is to do what i believe and what i believe is right. notice i am not in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM trying to convince you or anyone else not to vote, simply sharing why i am not voting.

A DUH. Fail! Politics fail! (If that wasn't embarrassing for you then... that's too bad)

actually i am embarrassed for you because you still don't seem to be getting any of this.

You mad about the hip-hop thread? Don't be. But don't be a dick about it. You're acting like American citizenship is like sitting in a strip club. Lap dance w/ touching or no vote! Way to joyfully shirk your responsibility.

not at all what in the world would that have to do with this discussion? indeed i wasn't even mad there either! sometimes my brother you get your signals crossed

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

 

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

again, yes its precisely their job, they want my vote don't they? you seem to want it yet you havent spent even ONE SENTENCE extolling the policy reasons i should support Hillary. not even once..



no i am not passive at all, indeed by using MY voice i am active and expressing my own power.



my duty is to do what i believe and what i believe is right. notice i am not in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM trying to convince you or anyone else not to vote, simply sharing why i am not voting.



actually i am embarrassed for you because you still don't seem to be getting any of this.


not at all what in the world would that have to do with this discussion? indeed i wasn't even mad there either! sometimes my brother you get your signals crossed

Again, not trying to get you to support Hillary.

Repeat: not trying to get you to support Hillary.

This has nothing to do with Hillary.

I want you to fight Trump.

By not voting against (key word: against) the person you know is the worst possible option, you're essentially supporting that person.

Beyond me how you can be so vocally opposed to Trump but be totally chill with doing nothing to actually oppose him.

But yeah it's your vote, your choice, your voice. You can do what you like. I'm under no obligation to respect it or pretend it doesn't bother me. It's people like you, who know Trump is terrible but can't bring themselves to vote for someone who is more qualified and objectively less terrible, that scare me. Fuck, vote for Stein if you have to. But by not voting, you're communicating a message that Trumo isn't bad enough to move you to conpromise. That's what a ton of people here in the gutter of the world are doing. Nothing.

So I don't believe you much of a right to complain about Trump. Do you ONLY vote when someone perfect is running? Because that's never happened.

For the love of god stop telling me that I'm trying to get you to support Hillary. I'm not. Far as I'm concerned you're free to do whatever, and in free to feel however I feel about it. If you've made up your mind, then that's that.

But you're essentially Trump neutral at the very least. You should own that and stop acting like you're in some crusade to change the system. System'a not changing, and your refusal to act will do nothing to change anything. You'll have to look at yourself in the mirror after all this is over and think: I couldn't be arsed! Own that. There is nothing noble or righteous about doing jack shit.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

 

Memes: the intelligent political discourse slayer.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

repeat if youre asking anyone to vote for Hillary because you don't like Trump by every ontological definition you are asking them to support Hillary. are we both speaking English here or nah?

if not lets try it in a different one.

እርግጠኛ ነዎት መለከት አይደለም ምክንያቱም ሂላሪ ድምጽ ለእኔ በመጠየቅ ነው ከሆነ ሂላሪ ለመደገፍ እኔን መጠየቅ ሁሉ በልምምዳዊ
ትርጉም ናቸው.

እኛም ተመሳሳይ ቋንቋ የሚናገሩ ወይስ አይደለም?


edit.

how would voting for Stein stop Trump exactly? and yet somehow i am the one accused of not knowing what i am talking about?

እንዴት ስቴይን ለ ድምጽ መስጠት በትክክል መለከት ያቆማል? ነገር ግን እንደምንም ብዬ ስለ እኔ ምን እንደ ሆነ አላውቅም የተከሰሱ ሰው ነኝ?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

ድምጽ ለመስጠት የእኔ ፈቃደኛ ባለመሆናቸው ሥርዓት ምንም ውጤት የራሱ ሁሉ መልካም, ቀዝቃዛ ከሆነ: እኔ አብዮት ዓይነት መስሎ አይደለሁም. እንዲህ እያለ እንደ እኔ ድምጽ ለመስጠት ሳይሆን ማንኛውም ሰው ለማሳመን እየሞከርኩ አይደለም. ድምጽ, ይህ የእርስዎ ንግድ ነው. ቀዝቃዛ, የእርስዎ አስተያየት ያጋሩ. እኔ በግሌ ከዚያም ድምጽ ያስፈልገናል የሚል አመለካከት ከሆነ ግን እኔ እና ለምን ድምጽ ምን እኔን ለማሳመን ነው. የዚህ ቀላል በእርግጥ, ትርጉም ውስጥ የጠፋውን በመጀመር ላይ ነው እንዴት እንደሆነ አልተረዱም.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

again, yes its precisely their job, they want my vote don't they? you seem to want it yet you havent spent even ONE SENTENCE extolling the policy reasons i should support Hillary. not even once..

Support for planned parenthood and the expansion of sex education in schools
Easier access to contraceptives
Increase in paid maternity leave
Banning the ownership of certain types of assault rifles and generally expanding background checks
Making community college education debt free
Immediately increasing national minimum wage to $12ph with ultimate aim of increasing it to $15

[evollove]

Suchfriends lives in California. His vote doesn't matter as far as electoral vote goes. And I doubt the popular vote will hinge on solely his opinion. Let the baby have his empty bottle.

Voting, btw, is called a "civic responsibility." Not a personal one. Stop treating your vote like it's your hymen.