[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

Could you give me some arguments for your opinion? It´s so easy to say "I don´t like that" or "you´re wrong". I always say arguments for my opinions.

Do you understand what makes a good song by x band's standards? Unless you can't tell simple differences like that, there's little to argue about RR.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Do you understand what makes a good song by x band's standards? Unless you can't tell simple differences like that, there's little to argue about RR.

To me all the music that makes me feel is good. Of course many music make me feel something, so I like most the music that gives me strong feelings. And Rather Ripped do that. You can tell me now, what are your good music standards and how Rather Ripped doesn´t fill them.

[kinn]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Desperate?

i thought they had been doing that since bmr.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by kinn

i thought they had been doing that since bmr.

Perhaps they were very good at not making it sound as such, back then.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Do you understand what makes a good song by x band's standards? Unless you can't tell simple differences like that, there's little to argue about RR.

So, it seems to me that you don´t have any arguments for your opinion about Rather Ripped. And I can make to that conclusion that your opinion is only based on that "common truth" here in this gossip that Rather Ripped sucks. Is there anybody in this gossip who can explains to me why he hates Rather Ripped?

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

So, it seems to me that you don´t have any arguments for your opinion about Rather Ripped. And I can make to that conclusion that your opinion is only based on that "common truth" here in this gossip that Rather Ripped sucks. Is there anybody in this gossip who can explains to me why he hates Rather Ripped?

Because the songs sound weak, songwriting on the album isn't what they got me used to up to Murray St., and sonically it's the most conventional Sonic Youth album that I can think of, and one that I would never remotely think of playing to someone who doesn't know who they are if I were to show them what they're capable of and why they got the reputation they have as a band. Also, together with Sonic Nurse this record has some of the weakest vocal deliveries by T. Moore. Lyrics range from ok (Reena, Rats) to plain awful (Do You Believe in Rapture). To me it seems that you're the one who's feeling more than a little insecure about your taste in SY albums to the extent you assume all their fans dislike it because that's the right thing to do, which made me wonder if you actually like it that much yourself and have a penchant for being a contrarian. After all, guess what, on these two threads you're presenting wishy-washy explanations as to why I should love this record as much as you do. Clear proof of that is that you're failing to accept the fact that some people simply dislike this record and you feel interfered
with by that. It's ok, relax, nobody is going to burn down your house if you enjoy RR.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Because the songs sound weak, songwriting on the album isn't what they got me used to up to Murray St., and sonically it's the most conventional Sonic Youth album that I can think of, and one that I would never remotely think of playing to someone who doesn't know who they are if I were to show them what they're capable of and why they got the reputation they have as a band. Also, together with Sonic Nurse this record has some of the weakest vocal deliveries by T. Moore. Lyrics range from ok (Reena, Rats) to plain awful (Do You Believe in Rapture). To me it seems that you're the one who's feeling more than a little insecure about your taste in SY albums to the extent you assume all their fans dislike it because that's the right thing to do, which made me wonder if you actually like it that much yourself and have a penchant for being a contrarian. After all, guess what, on these two threads you're presenting wishy-washy explanations as to why I should love this record as much as you do. Clear proof of that is that you're failing to accept the fact that some people simply dislike this record and you feel interfered
with by that. It's ok, relax, nobody is going to burn down your house if you enjoy RR.

Thanx for your answer, now I know you don´t follow the mass.

About my method of music, I try not analyse it much. The feelings I get the music is the most important. Somehow I like the most extremely beatiful and also raw and odd feelings music bring to me.

There is no insecure about my taste of Sonic Albums. I have listened SY about twenty years. I love every Sonic album, although I was disappointed to experimental and NYC ghosts at first. I loved and listened Rather Ripped many years before I even joined this forum. And of course, nobody have to like RR if they just doesn´t like it. I just have been wondering why so many people hate it. There are many albums I don´t like, but I don´t hate them. And even the four years after that record there are still quite many who wants to mention now and then, how lousy record it is. To me it´s quite same what Sonic Youth does, if they want to make a Rock`a´billy-album, it´s ok to me. Maybe they don´t succeed in that, maybe they do. I think many people thinks that Sonic Youth betrayed them when they made RR. And if some artist is so important to them, I suggest that they have to look in the mirror very carefully.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

Thanx for your answer, now I know you don´t follow the mass.

About my method of music, I try not analyse it much. The feelings I get the music is the most important. Somehow I like the most extremely beatiful and also raw and odd feelings music bring to me.

There is no insecure about my taste of Sonic Albums. I have listened SY about twenty years. I love every Sonic album, although I was disappointed to experimental and NYC ghosts at first. I loved and listened Rather Ripped many years before I even joined this forum. And of course, nobody have to like RR if they just doesn´t like it. I just have been wondering why so many people hate it. There are many albums I don´t like, but I don´t hate them. And even the four years after that record there are still quite many who wants to mention now and then, how lousy record it is. To me it´s quite same what Sonic Youth does, if they want to make a Rock`a´billy-album, it´s ok to me. Maybe they don´t succeed in that, maybe they do. I think many people thinks that Sonic Youth betrayed them when they made RR. And if some artist is so important to them, I suggest that they have to look in the mirror very carefully.

I see your point and appreciate it. I didn't feel so much betrayed when the record came out as just plain let down. It's not the lack of a noisier side to RR that I feel is missing, that's only one component of of their sound which I think made them so great for years. It's that on this record there's no bite, no structural brilliance and stimulating references to the way the songs have been composed. I'm all fine with their initial aim to make a poppier record, but I think they accomplished that much better with The Eternal. To be honest, though, I feel that overall they stagnated since Sonic Nurse. I'd prefer they make records that feel more like Sonic Youth trying new things out, moving on, without particularly having to force a drastic re-thinking of their own music.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

I see your point and appreciate it. I didn't feel so much betrayed when the record came out as just plain let down. It's not the lack of a noisier side to RR that I feel is missing, that's only one component of of their sound which I think made them so great for years. It's that on this record there's no bite, no structural brilliance and stimulating references to the way the songs have been composed. I'm all fine with their initial aim to make a poppier record, but I think they accomplished that much better with The Eternal. To be honest, though, I feel that overall they stagnated since Sonic Nurse. I'd prefer they make records that feel more like Sonic Youth trying new things out, moving on, without particularly having to force a drastic re-thinking of their own music.

I think it´s very usual and also natural that many artists creativity go down when they get older. I know only few where has happend backwards (tom waits, John Parish and Pj Harvey) and there´s some who´s creativity seem to continue (Nick Cave, also captain Beefheart made two almost as good records as his best after few not so good records). To me it´s ok, if creativity go down as long as there is some freshness in music. That´s the reason why I still like Rolling Stones although I prefer Bridges to Babylon much more than Bigger Bang. You´re right, there happend something after Nurse and I think the main reason was that Jim floated away. As I before said in my opinion anything radical has happened in Sonic Youth music since EVOL (maybe their "most radical" albums are in my opinion experimental and NYC ghosts, because there are almost none of that melodic (I just don´t remember what that guitar tuning is called, was it "pavement"-tuning?) clear and to me most enjoyable guitarchordbased songs. I think that´s the main reason I like RR and also Eternal a lot, because I find there many great melodies. It seems to now, that I will love SY as long as they made albums, but of course it will be possible that I am going to disappoint again to some album. If they do album there´s only farting, I will not probably buy it if they don´t fart interesting way. : )

I liked to thank you again because this conversation has been that kind of I like to discuss about music. I think many put only few lines nowadys and there is strong opinions without arguments. I think strong opinions is good as long as there are also arguments.