[floatingslowly]

oh fuck! fartbox.

glice's kid gloves are OFF!

[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

if you were less of a retard you'd see why i named chomsky-- it's not namedropping. it makes a point.

you write pretty, but you think like a fartbox. hence, a theologian.

For me, if you want to talk about the imprecision of language, you really need to be referring to the litany of continental linguists before you do Chomsky.

Alternately, fuck off twatbags.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

Nah, he's ok. It just aggravates me how he's given precedence over someone like Dave Crystal.

bitch was asking for "precise" (i presume he meant "logical" language)

chomski dealt with the computing (logical) aspect of it, yes?

now please bring up dave crystal in a non name-dropping way. come on. summarize his relevance to this point maybe? do it for some future beer i might buy you as long as it's not warm or anything called "brown ale".

[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

bitch was asking for "precise" (i presume he meant "logical" language)

chomski dealt with the computing (logical) aspect of it, yes?

now please bring up dave crystal in a non name-dropping way. come on. summarize his relevance to this point maybe? do it for some future beer i might buy you as long as it's not warm or anything called "brown ale".

Crystal's position isn't that of imputing an inherent political logic to language; he doesn't absolve it of a political position, and he doesn't himself exist in a political vacuum. He's closer to the (impossible) academic ideal of observing language from 'outside', if only because his position is less palpably charged with a political project.

In terms of his logic, he's been a critical contributor to the OED for decades; as such, he has an incredibly intimate, yet perspicuous, relationship, to the muddy world of 'how language works'. While he inevitably posits language as a social enterprise, this enterprise is organic, atomic and often fuzzily-bordered; if he is 'prescriptive', it's an open and porous prescritivism, something I just don't see in Chomsky. Over everything, he's almost exclusively an academic of linguism, whereas Chomsky, while a brilliant linguist, uses linguistics as collateral in his broader project(s).

[knox]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

language is never completely precise-- think of it as defined by 3 vectors

one axis is chomki's universal grammar

another axis is social usage-- not everyone applies the same logic

the third axis is time, which causes drifting, evolution, and leaves many fossils behind--e.g., grammar-defying idioms & rules, the english subjunctive, etc.

besides, reality is so fucking detailed, absolutely precise language is by definition an impossibility-- read some borges. "the analytical language of john wilkins" is a good one.

here african-american is a political tool, i say power to those who've wielded it & fuck correction.

i love you x2

[knox]

all this because some cunt started the "language" thing again.

[knox]

also, i used i was an indian, but i CAN'T can i? so i gotta resign.

[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by knox

also, i used i was an indian, but i CAN'T can i? so i gotta resign.

Were you in Horsham last Saturday?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

"Many blacks in America expressed a preference for the term, as it was formed in the same way as names for others of the many ethnic groups in the nation. Some argued further that, because of the historical circumstances surrounding the capture, enslavement and systematic attempts to de-Africanize blacks in the United States under chattel slavery, most African Americans are unable to trace their ancestry to a specific African nation; hence, the entire continent serves as a geographic marker."

the only time I have ever honestly heard ANY real black people use the expression "African-American" were all on television, and I even hang out with some pretty black nationalist/power kinda black folks.

[floatingslowly]

are you their Token White Guy?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

are you their Token White Guy?

I wish. for years people kept assuming I was Cuban/Brazilian

[floatingslowly]

it was yr rolling skills, I'm sure.

[floatingslowly]

or are you saying that it is better to be thought of as a Token White Guy than Cuban/Brazilian? why?

[floatingslowly]

I know a cuban but she tells everyone that she's from barcelona.

she has some seriously fucked up teeth.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by amerikangod

I have no interest in reading anything posted before this page, but 'African-American' is a stupid fucking term and any spineless, white-guilt-having, I-summer-in-Connecticut-at-a-beach-house-where-my-family-has-a-pot-bellied-pig 'progressive intellectual' deserves a swift punch in the throat the second they utter it. Aside from being frequently inaccurate (and 100% inaccurate the second you leave the U.S.), it embodies all of the worst aspects of the limp-wristed sector of race politics. I mean, talk about fucking kid gloves.

A black dude is a motherfucking black dude.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to amerikangod again.

[pbradley]

I once took a class called African-American Philosophy. I think most were, indeed, American descendants of African slaves, except Frantz Fanon who was African-Caribbean but I suppose you could argue that the West Indies is actually apart of North America.

Anyway, I usually regard the difference between the terms "Black" and "African-American" to be mostly superficial as long as who it is being referred to is clear. Ironically enough, as I alluded to before, arguing so passionately against African-American as a term is still advocating political correctness, just in a different direction. Calling African-Americans black people isn't going to make that beach house and smug multiculturalism disappear. Language politics is one of the "worst aspects of the limp-wristed sector of race politics" to which you still are engaged.

[Rob Instigator]

If people of Italian descent are allowed to call themselves Italian-American to designate teir past, then why can't black people call themselves african-american? They are americans with african ancestry.

I am Puerto Rican, and as such, american by birth, but I do not tell people I am puerto rican-american. I tellthem I am puerto rican, because that is where I was born, but if I was born in USA I would be more exact to say I was Puerto-rican-american.

american is not about color or race or ethnicity, or it shoud not be. there are plenty of people out there that will tell you that american means white, or natural born. fucking losers.

[Rob Instigator]

coffee is good

[knox]

Originally Posted by Keeping It Simple

Were you in Horsham last Saturday?

NOBODY looks like me.

[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by knox

NOBODY looks like me.

When I looked at her thinking it was you, she looked at me and gave a smile. I should've realised it couldn't possibly be you because she smiled.