[Skuj]

The more I read of this thread the happier I am that I don't know pre-2010 Swans (yet). Seer and TBK are monumentally great albums. Someone said they find the longest songs pointless. There's not a wasted second in them, imho. Swans make 2hr albums that feel much shorter, and leave you wishing they were longer. Gira has an uncanny ability to always keep things moving. There's no noodling here. Fuckin love TBK, unjaded by history in any way.

[Cooking With Satan]

The last three Swans albums have been incredible.

You know what would be sad? A 60 year old Michael Gira doing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOEYDu4AbU

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by Cooking With Satan

The last three Swans albums have been incredible.

You know what would be sad? A 60 year old Michael Gira doing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOEYDu4AbU

That is pretty brilliant though.

[Skuj]

Nathalie Neal is almost embarrassingly singalong and anthemy in a Coldplay/Oasis style, haha. Each vocal line is widely separated with plenty of instrumentation in between. But you'd have the perfect pop song if you put those vocal lines right next to each other. Thank fuck they did it this (TBK) way though. It makes me wonder if Gira had this 3min pop song and said "we gotta fuck it up with spaces in between."

The track To Be Kind makes me think of Ringo singing Goodnight. Both have a similar calming vibe following a couple of hours of slight insanity. Swans make sure to thrash an epic ending though.

[chocolate_ladyland]

Originally Posted by Cooking With Satan

The last three Swans albums have been incredible.

You know what would be sad? A 60 year old Michael Gira doing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOEYDu4AbU

It would be. But that attitude is what Swans is to me. I love the new albums, but I wish Gira did them under a new moniker.

I once saw an interview with Genesis P-Orridge where he (she? s/he?) said that TG was a band based on anger and hatred whereas Psychic TV was a band based on love and camaraderie. That is exactly how I see Swans and "Swans." The new stuff is heavy, powerful and terrifying, but ultimately uplifting, life-affirming music, while the pre-breakup material was just fucking disgusting. Even albums like WLFTMOI sound bleaker than To Be Kind. Two different beasts, but I don't think the new stuff should continue on the original Swans' legacy. Swans now are a completely different beast and the name doesn't do justice to either band's intentions.

[Skuj]

But why can't a band change / grow / morph into a different beast? Beatles went from I Want To Hold Your Hand to I Am The Walrus. Our beloved Sonic Youth did albums in the 2000s which were very different from the albums of the 1980s. Should Bob Dylan call himself Zimmerman now? His brand of bluesy stuff these last few albums is a very different thing from his 60s epics.

I mean, we are talking about 20-30 fuckin years spread here, between much of the past music that some are mentioning in this thread and now. How could they NOT change? Gira has a kid now, right? He's an old Dad like me, hahaha. That fuckin changes your outlook on life.

I just do not understand how calling this Swans (with a few of the same dudes as 20 years ago) does injustice to both eras.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

People hold onto their perspective, and I totally understand it. There are several bands who I totally adore particular records from, but otherwise don't listen to. It is what it is. The better part is just the fact that Swans or whatever folks want to call or think of it as are putting out great, challenging, inspiring art for us. This record has already inspired me on my guitarwork into certain directions. Also, I agree completely, those who have said the 30 minutes on The Seer or To Be Kind are pointless, I disagree, the 20 minutes of The Diamond Sea or the middle 20 minutes of Dark Star are WAY more insignificant than any of those sound collages of the past two records. By the way, I may be sounding like hyperbole, but you should know that I haven't read a music magazine, blog, or article since I was in middle school to I am influenced on this solely by my own experience of these records. I have literally read NOTHING about them from ANYWHERE other than this forum. I just really like these records

[Severian]

Don't go dragging Diamond Sea into this and calling it "insignificant" bra. There's no need to get all irrational and shit.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Don't go dragging Diamond Sea into this and calling it "insignificant" bra. There's no need to get all irrational and shit.

I didn't say that, I say the 20 minutes of (though I was buzzing it earlier, I totally meant to say the ending 12 minutes, e.g. the "radio" version was "good enough" on its own) were more insignificant than the Swans 30 minutes.. Neither should be considered insignificant on their own merits. What I like most about these recent Swans records is the perfect use of such small things and parts instrumentation wise, small bends, fills, riffs, effects samples, and yet as a composition? Its superb.

[guest]

Originally Posted by Skuj

But why can't a band change / grow / morph into a different beast? Beatles went from I Want To Hold Your Hand to I Am The Walrus. Our beloved Sonic Youth did albums in the 2000s which were very different from the albums of the 1980s. Should Bob Dylan call himself Zimmerman now? His brand of bluesy stuff these last few albums is a very different thing from his 60s epics.

I mean, we are talking about 20-30 fuckin years spread here, between much of the past music that some are mentioning in this thread and now. How could they NOT change? Gira has a kid now, right? He's an old Dad like me, hahaha. That fuckin changes your outlook on life.

I just do not understand how calling this Swans (with a few of the same dudes as 20 years ago) does injustice to both eras.

skuj go listen to those early records. just do it, come back here, read what you've written and then punch yrself in the balls.

as a few of us have said (I think...), the vitriolic element of swans wasn't so much an element per se as it was the very essence of swans itself. regardless of the form the music took it remained intact, through grinding no wave, neofolk, dark rock, whatever the fuck you want to call post-children of god; gira retained in all his music a fury, an unbridled hatred for mankind and the world with no inkling of hope, no light to offset the crushing blackness. the new records temper it with a sense of optimism, a sort of "hey the world suxxxx bad but we can overcome it together hippy dippy suck me off", itself a decidedly modern (and depressing) school of thought, representing a mentality that is totally at odds with the initial incarnation of the band. in that, in my mind and indeed those of a lot of people with whom I've spoken, it negates the foundational qualities of the band and thereby means it's NOT SWANS, it's angels of light + drone rock.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I understand completely the swans fans lamentations but again I think its not fair. Gira did the heavy lifting even for early swans, so if he feels like his newer music is still swans that is his right as an artist isn't it? Artists are people too, they change and evolve. Its been said this is a caricature of swans, I disagree, if gira would have tried to fake the intrinsic nihilism of hia earlier perspective THAT wouldve been a caricature. If anything, taking the risk of trying something fundamentally different is the sign of sincere art for art's sake

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I understand completely the swans fans lamentations but again I think its not fair. Gira did the heavy lifting even for early swans, so if he feels like his newer music is still swans that is his right as an artist isn't it? Artists are people too, they change and evolve. Its been said this is a caricature of swans, I disagree, if gira would have tried to fake the intrinsic nihilism of hia earlier perspective THAT wouldve been a caricature. If anything, taking the risk of trying something fundamentally different is the sign of sincere art for art's sake

To be honest when I went to see them last week to me they sounded and looked like rock dinosaurs enjoying their fame. Nevermind their early records, which I've never been too much of a fan of because the stuff they were singing about I enjoy more via visual art, books, theatre and occasionally movies. Rock music is the tamest medium for grief as far as I can see. Their early records never sounded heavy even from a sound perspective if compared to a band like, say, Einsturzende Neubauten.

[Skuj]

Fascinating thread. One day I will delve into early Swans, but I cannot imagine ever coming to the conclusion that Seer and TBK are anything but monumentally wonderful albums. I don't care how "content" these people are in 2014. Wearing out my 2CD TBK these days.

The "noise" sections of TBK are fantastic. Many bands attempt noise and fail, but on TBK there are some staggeringly beautiful and terrifying moments of sonic overload. The crescendos in Bring The Sun / Toussant, the descending lines in Some Things We Do (reminds me of fucking Ode To Billy Joe), the transition in She Loves Us, the eerie end phase of Kirsten Supine (my favourite part of the whole journey), the epic outro of TBK.....this is superbly constructed noise. Can't get enough of this motherfucker.

[Blood_Promise]

As it was stated my many, Screen Shot and Some Things We Do are just lazy songs lyrically.

Then again I remember reading/hearing an interview with M. Gira around the time The Seer was released, where he explained why it is less vocal oriented. He lamented the fact that when writing lyrics it is hard for him to say something which he hadn't said before already.

Skuj, don't forget to also check out The Angels of Light.

[Skuj]

Originally Posted by Blood_Promise

As it was stated my many, Screen Shot and Some Things We Do are just lazy songs lyrically.

Then again I remember reading/hearing an interview with M. Gira around the time The Seer was released, where he explained why it is less vocal oriented. He lamented the fact that when writing lyrics it is hard for him to say something which he hadn't said before already.

I see Screenshot and Some Things We Do as very related, one starting the album, and one nearly exactly halfway - situated between two gigantic motherfuckers, offering a reprieve. I have determined that both are not wonderful songs alone.....but within TBK they work perfectly. They are ESSENTIAL, as an intro that does not overwhelm at the start of a two hour journey, and as a breather mid album. In both I think the instrumentation is key, and the voice/lyrics merely anchor/vector each. I don't believe every song should be Like A Rolling Stone. Within a 2hr journey it is absolutely essential to have "down time". I don't suggest that these two tracks are shit, but the whole album needs a gentle intro and a reprieve.

OK I'm tired and drunk now, so......

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I agree, people are totally shitting on Screen Shot and Things We Do.. They feel purposefully lazy, not accidentally. They seem almost like a somber sigh rather than an angst-filled growl. I think the term is lamentation. ALL the lyrics feel a bit rushed, but not neglected. It seems the lyrics weren't the emphasis of this record, rather the sound.

[Cooking With Satan]

Originally Posted by guest

skuj go listen to those early records. just do it, come back here, read what you've written and then punch yrself in the balls.

as a few of us have said (I think...), the vitriolic element of swans wasn't so much an element per se as it was the very essence of swans itself. regardless of the form the music took it remained intact, through grinding no wave, neofolk, dark rock, whatever the fuck you want to call post-children of god; gira retained in all his music a fury, an unbridled hatred for mankind and the world with no inkling of hope, no light to offset the crushing blackness. the new records temper it with a sense of optimism, a sort of "hey the world suxxxx bad but we can overcome it together hippy dippy suck me off", itself a decidedly modern (and depressing) school of thought, representing a mentality that is totally at odds with the initial incarnation of the band. in that, in my mind and indeed those of a lot of people with whom I've spoken, it negates the foundational qualities of the band and thereby means it's NOT SWANS, it's angels of light + drone rock.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's whatever Michael Gira wants it to be, and I'm also pretty sure he's grown up.

Being a "fan" doesn't give you any special insight on what a band should sound like.

You either like it, or you don't.

[Skuj]

I adore the DVD that comes with the special edition of the 2CD. Most songs are in embryonic or exploding states. I haven't been to a major live show in decades, but I must see this current Swans. This is serious shit.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Skuj

(And I explored Fennesz.)

And?

I think it's at the too of the 2014 albums at the halfway mark.

Without thinking too much, I'd say it's:

1. Fennesz - Bécs
2. Untold - Black Light Spiral / Patten - Estoile Nanant
3. Swans - To Be Kind
4. Perfect Pussy - Say Yes to Love / FUTURE DEATH - Special Victim
5. Iggy Azalea - The New Classic

But shit I don't know

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Cooking With Satan

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's whatever Michael Gira wants it to be, and I'm also pretty sure he's grown up.

Being a "fan" doesn't give you any special insight on what a band should sound like.

You either like it, or you don't.

Yeah, but Skuj should totally still listen to the pre-My Father Will... Swans because he seems to love the band, and it only makes sense that he should not deny himself the pleasure of listening to those brilliant earlier records.

Though it's true- Swans = Michael Gira, period. I get irritated with the " Jarboe or it's not Swans" crowd because that's hugely unfair to Gira as a driving creative force.