[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

"It is with such activity in mind that the words of the late John F. Kennedy come back to haunt us. Five years ago he said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." Increasingly, by choice or by accident, this is the role our nation has taken, the role of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investments. I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin...we must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered."

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

and in relevency to Iraq and Afghanistan and now Pakistan and eventually Iran and North Korea and all the places the system sends us to die and convinces us to live in fear of for no reason other than politricks and $$$

"If we continue, there will be no doubt in my mind and in the mind of the world that we have no honorable intentions in Vietnam. If we do not stop our war against the people of Vietnam immediately, the world will be left with no other alternative than to see this as some horrible, clumsy, and deadly game we have decided to play. The world now demands a maturity of America that we may not be able to achieve. It demands that we admit that we have been wrong from the beginning of our adventure in Vietnam, that we have been detrimental to the life of the Vietnamese people. The situation is one in which we must be ready to turn sharply from our present ways. In order to atone for our sins and errors in Vietnam, we should take the initiative in bringing a halt to this tragic war.

I would like to suggest five concrete things that our government should do immediately to begin the long and difficult process of extricating ourselves from this nightmarish conflict:
Number one: End all bombing in North and South Vietnam.

Number two: Declare a unilateral cease-fire in the hope that such action will create the atmosphere for negotiation."

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

when I see people wearing all those shirts that say Dreams Come True I say to myself, "What the fuck?" as my heart sinks..

as long as there continues to be war, than we live in the same fucking nightmare as they...

King said IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE IN VIETNAM, the communists were not a threat to us, it was a lie to perpetuate war.

I SAY TODAY, THE OBAMA SHOULD DECLARE AN IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE IN IRAQ, and let us begin to work torwards actually fullfilling the good Dr King's dreams of radical peace and equality based upon empathy and love.

fuck war, stand up for peace.

Love is lovely and war is ugly, so you've got to make love and not war seen?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

 

 

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I SAY TODAY, THE OBAMA SHOULD DECLARE AN IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE IN IRAQ

I'm going to give the man the benefit of the doubt. I will assume that this notion (and all of it's ramifications) have been fully considered.

so, I ask you, who I will also assume has fully considered this notion (and all of it's ramifications), what happens next?

babylon burning?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

I'm going to give the man the benefit of the doubt. I will assume that this notion (and all of it's ramifications) have been fully considered.

so, I ask you, who I will also assume has fully considered this notion (and all of it's ramifications), what happens next?

babylon burning?

listen to the speech King gave, if you want to believe in radical-nonviolence, you must mean it. You can not say bring peace through war, you can not say have equality while fighting war.

You can not have your cake and eat it too..

if you want non-violence, if you want peace, you have to mean it. This is the dream which Dr King had, and was martyred for, and it remains unfulfilled in this endless nightmare of war...

[floatingslowly]

I'm not talking about MLK. I'm talking about "I SAY TODAY, THE OBAMA SHOULD DECLARE AN IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE IN IRAQ"

I SAY the united states has dug itself a fairly large hole over there.

all of the best intentions in the world would not cease the rapid decompression a sudden power-vacuum would create. there would be no true peace.

I find it interesting that Obama has somewhat deviated from his stated intentions during the campaign. Hillary looked like a hawk compared to him.

maybe, he's been privy to a little more hard intelligence than you or I have, and maybe, it's made him less apt to just call it quits in the name of love.

[ithinkimissyou]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

maybe, he's been privy to a little more hard intelligence than you or I have;

the same shit was spouted for the invasion of iraq

when people asked for more evidence, the teeming millions screamed that they couldn't possibly do something like that without putting the spies at risk of discovery.

but in all honesty, i think obama is pretty much a pragmatist. he's doing the best he reasonably can, and he has a load of vested interests advising him, yadda yadda, moo.

i'm actually pleased he's made noises about nuclear disarmament. i'm just waiting to wake up and find out some bizarre turn of events has led to a city somewhere being wiped out, and the inevitable decent to hell which would follow.

one thing i've learned from following the northern irish dealy over the last decade or so is that all the best intentions wont do diddly squat.

calling a ceasefire wont make the lunatics on whatever side, suddenly become reasonable - in fact it may make some of them even more dangerous.

this isnt an argument for doing nothing - things can always always be improved... but just saying that you'll stop shooting all of a sudden wont make the opposition, whoever they may be, more rational and aware of the bigger picture.

bleh.

drunk.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by ithinkimissyou

the same shit was spouted for the invasion of iraq

Originally Posted by ithinkimissyou

he's doing the best he reasonably can, and he has a load of vested interests advising him

Originally Posted by ithinkimissyou

the same shit was spouted for the invasion of iraq

funny how that works, isn't it?

not much ever really changes.

Originally Posted by ithinkimissyou

calling a ceasefire wont make the lunatics on whatever side, suddenly become reasonable - in fact it may make some of them even more dangerous.

exactly. ergo no peace.

[Savage Clone]

I'm pretty certain violence is a permanent component of what the locals call The Human Condition.
You know, because a lot of people are jerks.

[floatingslowly]

pretty much. yr all fucking savages.

for the record: I do not have an easy answer.

I stand with suchfriendsarenotsoverydangerousafterall in sentiment, but realism prevents me from going much further.

for me, there are no electric sheep.

[ithinkimissyou]

*glad to be from saturn*

[floatingslowly]

boys go to jupiter.

[ithinkimissyou]

girls go to mars

[pbradley]

We should shift from a thinking machine-oriented society to a person-oriented society.

 

Half of my posts are Dune references.

[Lamont Cranston]

Theres an old article from FAIR that covers all this SuchFriendsAreDangerous: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2269

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Lamont Cranston

Theres an old article from FAIR that covers all this SuchFriendsAreDangerous: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2269

thanks for posting that article.

King was a radical for peace, promoting the metaphysical reality which his hero Ghandi had personified, which is that you can never back away from peace.

You must give love, regardless of how silly it sounds to those who are brainwashed with fear from the propaganda of the system.

In the 1960s THEY told us that the domino theory would bring communist revolutions into Florida if we backed out of Vietnam because everyone would think the US were pussies..

well did the communists invade America? No.. it was all smoke and mirrors like Dr King said, and in the end of the war we did exactly what he said, cease-fire and negotiations. ALL WARS END THIS WAY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, you either negotiate or you have genocide.. do we want to kill everyone in Iraq? Do we want to kill everyone in Al Queda? Do we want to kill all the Taliban? That is genocide, I want no part in that.

TODAY..

they tell us that if we back down in Iraq or Afghanistan the terrorist boogymen will invade america because they think we are pussies, do we see a pattern here? I say, like the good Dr King did, that we need radical peace, which means IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE.

I say this boldly and with no apologies, IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE. This is not the same as withdrawls, this is an IMMEDIATE STOPPING of MILITARY OFFENSIVE OPERATIONS, which is bullshit. We need to stop fighting an offensive war there, and back out for the sake of the peace we supposedly invaded these countries in order to create, but which this far has proved illusory..

[floatingslowly]

^^^ again, yr heart is in the right place, but overall, it's not a very well thought out plan.

Originally Posted by pbradley

Half of my posts are Dune references.

oddly enough: "Long live the fighters!" was my original resonse to this thread.

I deleted it for lack of content.

[Kegmama]

 

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I'm pretty certain violence is a permanent component of what the locals call The Human Condition.
You know, because a lot of people are jerks.

Exactly, the masses are asses man...

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

^^^ again, yr heart is in the right place, but overall, it's not a very well thought out plan.

any plan which continues offensive military operations in the name of peace is not a very thought out plan either.. so apparantly the problem is that no one is thinking?

Originally Posted by Kegmama

 

Exactly, the masses are asses man...

Yes, but do not contort the good Doctor's philosophy, HIS reaction to evil was not violence, HIS reaction to evil was not to justify war against it.

IT DOES NOT TAKE VIOLENCE TO BRING ABOUT JUSTICE.

I stand with Peter Tosh, saying 'everyone is crying for peace, but no man is crying for justice" however we do not create justice through violence and war, in fact, by definition violence and war perpetuate INJUSTICE.

are dead afghanis, pakistanis and iraqis justice?

love is lovely and war is ugly..
brothers beware, sisters beware, beware of the warmongers..