[follow.blind]

I like pop music, I like even R.E.M. and I'm big Throwing Muses fan...and I think that Sonic Youth (one of the most inspiring band in my life) always have some kind of pop aspect in their songs (voice copying guitar-melody-line in unisono etc.) So I don't care if the new LP is rather pop-based than dissonant-like.
But: As we can see on every live show after every new release - Lee Ranaldo isn't really into it...he often plays out of rhythm, he looks confused in the fingering (Sonic Nurse shows from 2004 are often really funny...) and I guess he doesn't like this way of music/sonic evolution - especially when we talk about his "lead" guitar parts...RR songs played live show it as well.
Thurston still acts like teenager who wants to be the kooolest person ever, Kim plays two tones in every song and she gets stacked in it and Steve...he doesn't play anything interesting (now).
They have no real "pop abilities".
I saw them on Letterman - the worst of their TV appearences.
Rather Ripped isn't a step forward and it isn't step back (and I rather want LP called a Rather a Step Back - in this case).
It is just something between T's Psychic Hearts and some pop nonsense.
It's still the best rock long-player of the year for me but it's the bigest disillusion for me at the same time.
What do you think?

[HaydenAsche]

All This Talk Of Blood And Iron
Is The Cause
Of All My Shaking

[acousticrock87]

They've been playing for 25 years and are constantly working on side projects. They've just developed and aged in slightly different directions. It's inevitable.

[atari 2600]

What I think is that you've just offered up the most cogent criticism thus far, follow.blind.

I disagree with your appraisal of the recent Letterman appearance though. The sound levels were the best I've ever heard for a live Sonic Youth TV appearance with the exception of the b&w Sunday from that European (French?) show.

[kingcoffee]

Originally Posted by follow.blind

I like pop music, I like even R.E.M. and I'm big Throwing Muses fan...and I think that Sonic Youth (one of the most inspiring band in my life) always have some kind of pop aspect in their songs (voice copying guitar-melody-line in unisono etc.) So I don't care if the new LP is rather pop-based than dissonant-like.
But: As we can see on every live show after every new release - Lee Ranaldo isn't really into it...he often plays out of rhythm, he looks confused in the fingering (Sonic Nurse shows from 2004 are often really funny...) and I guess he doesn't like this way of music/sonic evolution - especially when we talk about his "lead" guitar parts...RR songs played live show it as well.
Thurston still acts like teenager who wants to be the kooolest person ever, Kim plays two tones in every song and she gets stacked in it and Steve...he doesn't play anything interesting (now).
They have no real "pop abilities".
I saw them on Letterman - the worst of their TV appearences.
Rather Ripped isn't a step forward and it isn't step back (and I rather want LP called a Rather a Step Back - in this case).
It is just something between T's Psychic Hearts and some pop nonsense.
It's still the best rock long-player of the year for me but it's the bigest disillusion for me at the same time.
What do you think?

I agree. It's not that great of a record and the band seem to be in less than top form. I just hope that the rumors that are going around aren't true and that the band will continue to work together and their next record will be something really worthwhile and amazing. A return to form, as it were.

[follow.blind]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

They've been playing for 25 years and are constantly working on side projects. They've just developed and aged in slightly different directions. It's inevitable.

Isn't better to wait one more year (there was this Jim's leaving etc.) and then make some REAL step forward...or anywhere...?

[kingcoffee]

I also agree that Thurston's super cool attitude should disappear. It really comes off as pretentious and arrogant sometimes. It bugs me. And Kim does have very little musical abilities compared to the rest of the band members. Steve Shelley's drumming is less than inspired. I just think that right now, the band is in a bit of a funk. It happens. The good thing is, the band isn't on (hard) drugs, if any at all, and they aren't self-destructive people. Hopefully they'll just tough it out and write something even better next time.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by kingcoffee

The good thing is, the band isn't on (hard) drugs, if any at all, and they aren't self-destructive people.

I don't see how one can make the statement you did that confidently. The corollary is that they are on drugs, & that is equally unprovable.

I will offer forth that during their admitted time of heavy usage Thurston wrote Candle which cautioned, "I better change my mind before it burns out," & that Incinerate from the new album features the lyric, "I'll burn out anyhow."

[follow.blind]

Originally Posted by kingcoffee

I also agree that Thurston's super cool aditude will disappear. It really comes off as pretentious and arrogant sometimes. It bugs me. And Kim does have very little musical abilities compared to the rest of the band members. Steve Shelley's drumming is less than inspired. I justb think that right now, the band is in a bit of a funk. It happens. The good thing is, the band isn't on (hard) drugs, if any at all, and they aren't self-destructive people. Hopefully they'll just tough it out and write something even better next time.

I agree - it's better when they just pretend to be "ROCKers".

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by kingcoffee

I also agree that Thurston's super cool aditude will disappear. It really comes off as pretentious and arrogant sometimes. It bugs me. And Kim does have very little musical abilities compared to the rest of the band members. Steve Shelley's drumming is less than inspired. I justb think that right now, the band is in a bit of a funk. It happens. The good thing is, the band isn't on (hard) drugs, if any at all, and they aren't self-destructive people. Hopefully they'll just tough it out and write something even better next time.

Isn't "Thurston's super cool attitude" something that you're projecting onto Thurston though? Isn't he just being himself?

As far as Kim not having any talent on guitar, I think that's hogwash. Like Thurston, she's not technically gifted, but she is very creative on guitar & that's probably the main reason why she is now playing a lot of guitar because she is the one coming up with those parts. There are a lot of virtuosic abilities that Lee, Kim & Thurston all display; no one else can sound like them. On a side tangent, I'm no Pat Metheny fan, but in a way, Lee reminds me of him because he takes simple lines & knows how to put them all together dynamically. Lee will make an excellent producer once he finds the right band to produce.

Perhaps the only real legitimate gripe that fans can possibly justify with Rather Ripped is that there is a lack of engaging drum parts which is only natural considering the style of the majority of the more "straightforward" songs that are being presented. Steve Shelley is at no loss for talent. He's the greatest drummer in the world and has been for a very long time & no one else in the band can claim that sort of complete & total world class ability on their instrument.

[follow.blind]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

What I think is that you've just offered up the most cogent and valid criticism thus far, follow.blind.

I disagree with your appraisal of the recent Letterman appearance though. The sound levels were the best I've ever heard for a live Sonic Youth TV appearance with the exception of the b&w Sunday from that European (French?) show.

"Sunday" played on French TV was fantastic! Perfect sound, great image...A Thousand Leaves is my favorite SY era...

Maybe you're right - I saw it just twice (this Late Night 06)...and I think I'll make a final statement for myself in more than two months - like I always do. What about to watch it chronologically? I'll try it.

[krastian]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Isn't "Thurston's super cool attitude" something that you're projecting onto Thurston though? Isn't he just being himself?

Dude, you just took the words right out of my mouth. I've never in my life thought Thurston to be arrogant....he's just insane and that's how we like it

[follow.blind]

Steve Shelley is one of the most creative drummers of the past 20 years. He really knows what (and when) to play .
I don't like educated drummers from famous conservatory and rednecks playing senseless stuff like for example Tool and other byceps-brain fanatics...
It's a pity that he play less than ever.

[top 40 squeeze]

Originally Posted by kingcoffee

I also agree that Thurston's super cool aditude will disappear. It really comes off as pretentious and arrogant sometimes. It bugs me. And Kim does have very little musical abilities compared to the rest of the band members. Steve Shelley's drumming is less than inspired. I justb think that right now, the band is in a bit of a funk. It happens. The good thing is, the band isn't on (hard) drugs, if any at all, and they aren't self-destructive people. Hopefully they'll just tough it out and write something even better next time.

Huh? Super cool? I always saw him as kind of nerdy and funny.

I do agree that the band doesn't seem to be really tight when it comes to playing the new tracks from a couple of the bootlegs I've heard, Lee in particular seems to have trouble playing or even improvising with the leads he played on the record.

[Gookid]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Isn't "Thurston's super cool attitude" something that you're projecting onto Thurston though? Isn't he just being himself?

I agree completely with atari 2600. The times I've seen Thurston, he's been cordial and very approachable. He knows his records and music history well; perhaps his confidence is what you misake for 'supa cool attitude'?

[habanero]

I think you guys are over analyzing this record, tour and band.

Yea, they've been around for 25 years and people change. My musical tastes have changed a little too. The record is distinctively SY and the songs are great to listen to. Currently "Pink Steam" is my favorite, just a cool as fuck song musically and lyrically.

I thought their show in Asheville was great. I didn't lose interest the entire show and Kim had a great stage presence. I appreciate any band who knows how to entertain!

[Magic Wheel Memory]

I love Thurston's attitude. He gets so excited on stage, and that's what it's all about. Nothing wrong with the other members, etiher. If they want to be more stoic, that's cool. Yeah, they had a few goofs when I saw them at CBGB, but who cares? When I see a live show, I can deal with that if the energy is there. Maybe it will improve as the tour progresses.

[Pax Americana]

Originally Posted by follow.blind

Rather Ripped isn't a step forward and it isn't step back (and I rather want LP called a Rather a Step Back - in this case).

^ I have no idea what this sentence means....

But if it means that Rather Ripped is okay but not all that great, then I would agree.

[kingcoffee]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Isn't "Thurston's super cool attitude" something that you're projecting onto Thurston though? Isn't he just being himself?

As far as Kim not having any talent on guitar, I think that's hogwash. Like Thurston, she's not technically gifted, but she is very creative on guitar & that's probably the main reason why she is now playing a lot of guitar because she is the one coming up with those parts. There are a lot of virtuosic abilities that Lee, Kim & Thurston all display; no one else can sound like them. On a side tangent, I'm no Pat Metheny fan, but in a way, Lee reminds me of him because he takes simple lines & knows how to put them all together dynamically. Lee will make an excellent producer once he finds the right band to produce.

Perhaps the only real legitimate gripe that fans can possibly justify with Rather Ripped is that there is a lack of engaging drum parts which is only natural considering the style of the majority of the more "straightforward" songs that are being presented. Steve Shelley is at no loss for talent. He's the greatest drummer in the world and has been for a very long time & no one else in the band can claim that sort of complete & total world class ability on their instrument.

Yr not really listening to me. I'm not calling Thurston pretentious. I said he comes across as pretentious. There is a subtle difference. True, I do not personally known the man. He may act the same way he has always acted. I don't know. I was just commenting on what I gathered from his physical gestures and the way he talks. Who knows, I might be wrong. I do feel that Kim is much less talented than the rest of the band members musically. She can write pretty interesting songs, though. I just think as far as musicianship goes, she is the least talented in the group. Although, being the least talented musician in Sonic Youth is still light years better than being the best musician in 99.9% of other popular rock bands right now. I still stand by my statments that Steve Shelley has not really shown his true colors on Rather Ripped, in fact in my opinion none of the band members are really showing their true colors.

[kingcoffee]

But a mediocre Sonic Youth record is still much better than all of the other "great" rock albums that have come out recently that are being eaten up by the press. I'll take SY over My Chemical Romance or Thursday, Saves the Day or any of these other shitty rock bands any day of the week.