[chocolate_ladyland]

So is a killer let off or is an innocent man served justice?

That Stand Your Ground law is one of the most fucked up things I can think of.

[ilduclo]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/garyyounge

17 yr old hunted down by zimmy after being told NOT to do so by cops, the kid defends himself and gets shot....

[h8kurdt]

First off only two people know what really happened and one of them is dead. Therefore the jury had to say that they knew for certain that he killed him unlawfully and there was no way to know that.

Secondly, why weren't people getting this up in arms when the whole N.S.A bullshit came out?

[!@#$%!]

children: when a strange man is following you around, use your cellphone to call the cops and not your idiot friend.

"hello? police? there's some weirdo following me around"

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Secondly, why weren't people getting this up in arms when the whole N.S.A bullshit came out?

bread + circus

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by chocolate_ladyland

So is a killer let off or is an innocent man served justice?

i didn't see so i have no fucking idea.

Originally Posted by chocolate_ladyland

That Stand Your Ground law is one of the most fucked up things I can think of.

i am not sure about that either. i mean, the hysterical knee-jerk liberal response is one thing, but the science doesn't show a clear conclusion.

[chocolate_ladyland]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i didn't see so i have no fucking idea.



i am not sure about that either. i mean, the hysterical knee-jerk liberal response is one thing, but the science doesn't show a clear conclusion.

I wasn't ever saying that I believed Zimmerman was a murderer, I was just posing the question. I do stand behind the Stand Your Ground law being bullshit though. Was Trayvon not "standing his ground" too?

[dead_battery]

Straight outta Compton, crazy motherfucker named Ice Cube
From the gang called Niggaz With Attitudes
When I'm called off, I got a sawed-off
Squeeze the trigger, and bodies are hauled off
You too, boy, if ya fuck with me
The police are gonna havta come and get me
Off yo ass, that's how I'm goin out
For the punk motherfuckers that's showin out
Niggaz start to mumble, they wanna rumble
Mix em and cook em in a pot like gumbo
Goin off on a motherfucker like that
with a gat that's pointed at yo ass
So give it up smooth
Ain't no tellin when I'm down for a jack move
Here's a murder rap to keep yo dancin
with a crime record like Charles Manson
AK-47 is the tool
Don't make me act the motherfuckin fool
Me you can go toe to toe, no maybe
I'm knockin niggaz out tha box, daily
yo weekly, monthly and yearly
until them dumb motherfuckers see clearly
that I'm down with the capital C-P-T
Boy you can't fuck with me
So when I'm in your neighborhood, you better duck
Coz Ice Cube is crazy as fuck
As I leave, believe I'm stompin
but when I come back, boy, I'm comin straight outta Compton

City of Compton, City of Compton

[Eazy E] Yo Ren
[MC Ren] Whassup?
[Eazy E] Tell em where you from!

Verse Two: MC Ren

Straight outta Compton, another crazy ass nigga
More punks I smoke, yo, my rep gets bigger
I'm a bad motherfucker and you know this
But the pussy ass niggaz won't show this
But I don't give a fuck, I'ma make my snaps
If not from the records, from jackin the crops
Just like burglary, the definition is 'jackin'
And when illegally armed it's called 'packin'
Shoot a motherfucker in a minute
I find a good piece o' pussy, I go up in it
So if you're at a show in the front row
I'm a call you a bitch or dirty-ass ho
You'll probably get mad like a bitch is supposed to
But that shows me, slut, you're composed to
a crazy muthafucker from tha street
Attitude legit cause I'm tearin up shit
MC Ren controls the automatic
For any dumb muthafucker that starts static
Not the right hand cause I'm the hand itself
every time I pull a AK off the shelf
The security is maximum and that's a law
R-E-N spells Ren but I'm raw
See, coz I'm the motherfuckin villain
The definition is clear, you're the witness of a killin
that's takin place without a clue
And once you're on the scope, your ass is through
Look, you might take it as a trip
but a nigga like Ren is on a gangsta tip
Straight outta Compton...

City of Compton, City of Compton

[Dr. Dre] Eazy is his name and the boy is comin...

Verse Three: Eazy-E

...straight outta Compton
is a brotha that'll smother yo' mother
and make ya sister think I love her
Dangerous motherfucker raises hell
And if I ever get caught I make bail
See, I don't give a fuck, that's the problem
I see a motherfuckin cop I don't dodge him
But I'm smart, lay low, creep a while
And when I see a punk pass, I smile
To me it's kinda funny, the attitude showin a nigga drivin
but don't know where the fuck he's going, just rollin
lookin for the one they call Eazy
But here's a flash, they never seize me
Ruthless! Never seen like a shadow in the dark
except when I unload, see I'll get over the hesitation
and hear the scream of the one who got the last penetration
Give a little gust of wind and I'm jettin
But leave a memory no one'll be forgettin
So what about the bitch who got shot? Fuck her!
You think I give a damn about a bitch? I ain't a sucker!
This is the autobiography of the E, and if you ever fuck with me
You'll get taken by a stupid dope brotha who will smother
word to the motherfucker, straight outta Compton

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

First off only two people know what really happened and one of them is dead. Therefore the jury had to say that they knew for certain that he killed him unlawfully and there was no way to know that.

Generally speaking, even when killing a person entirely by accident, there is some substantive accountability. With George Zimmerman there was none, even when it was clear that one way or the other he was an antagonist. He was not an innocent by-stander surprisingly accosted by Trayvon, he instigated the scenario. Even if Trayvon WAS beating that dudes ass, and ass whooping is NEVER a CAPITAL OFFENSE meriting summary execution in the streets.

The tragedy is not merely that Trayvon was killed, the tragedy here is that many of us here in American already well knew that Zimmerman would walk, because the lives of young black men haven't been of any value to America since their monetary value was negated by the 13th amendment

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by chocolate_ladyland

I wasn't ever saying that I believed Zimmerman was a murderer, I was just posing the question.

yeah i didn't assume one way or another. i couldn't answer your question though because i purposefully skipped the days upon days of trial media circus, so i'm not privy to what the jury saw or heard (with few exceptions)-- i mostly skimmed through the commentary on "serious" papers. hence, i plead agnosticism. i am not equipped to decide.

Originally Posted by chocolate_ladyland

I do stand behind the Stand Your Ground law being bullshit though. Was Trayvon not "standing his ground" too?

again because of the accounts i don't know. whoever was the recipient of the aggression was the one who had no duty to retreat. in other words, one has the right to self-defense wherever the may be, not just at home. who attacked first?

but that's the law-- common sense to me dictates avoiding a potentially deadly fight whenever possible. zimmerman was trying to play cop but apparently he didn't break the law, i.e., it's not illegal to follow someone on the street. even though it's retarded in my personal opinion.

however in other occasions stand your ground may apply differently. say someone comes into a movie house and starts shooting up the place. you're not the owner but a mere customer. are you obligated by law to fuck off and run and possibly get shot in the back? or can you pull out your carry weapon and shootthe assailant?

shit like that gets very complicated and there's no black and white which is why lawyers make so much money. i'm no jurist, but i know that no law will ever be perfect. claims about the effects of the law itself go both ways-- it reduces crime, it increases crime, i haven't seen anything conclusive.

personally though, i favor the castle doctrine but about stand your ground i really don't know enough to make a definitive judgment. but maybe you can convince me it's bullshit. 1... 2... 3... go!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

again because of the accounts i don't know. whoever was the recipient of the aggression was the one who had no duty to retreat. in other words, one has the right to self-defense wherever the may be, not just at home. who attacked first?

All of those rhetorical arguments are nullified by one more pertinent question, "Who had a gun and who was unarmed?" Right. Zimmerman. Losing a fist fight hardly justifies killing somebody

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

All of those rhetorical arguments are nullified by one more pertinent question, "Who had a gun and who was unarmed?" Right. Zimmerman. Losing a fist fight hardly justifies killing somebody

you can permanently damage, paralyze or kill someone in a fistfight. fistfights aren't "non-lethal", they are merely less lethal.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

you can permanently damage, paralyze or kill someone in a fistfight. fistfights aren't "non-lethal", they are merely less lethal.

 

Now you are honestly just back pedaling.

[Rob Instigator]

they should have gone for manslaughter charge, not murder. murder is very specific and much harder to "prove"

they may still do so

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

they should have gone for manslaughter charge [...]

they may still do so

???????

[Rob Instigator]

well, in a civil trial...

Just like OJ.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

well, in a civil trial...

Just like OJ.

ah...!

but if i understand correctly, stand your ground laws have a clause to prevent that.

on the other hand, zimmerman is suing nbc for editing his 911 tape to make him look like a racist.

[Rob Instigator]

I wish people would get this upset about the 10-15% of people that are executed in this country under erroneous convictions.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I wish people would get this upset about the 10-15% of people that are executed in this country under erroneous convictions.

TV makes people think of whatever they want

meanwhile, everyone has forgotten about nsa domestic espionage

 

[Rob Instigator]

and no one talks about Egypt or Syria or Iran

[dead_battery]

ZIMMERMAN is a liberal who, back in 2010, demanded that the same cops who would go on to arrest him be prosecuted for beating up a homeless black man.

Martin was a paranoid and thuggish young man who happened to be black. He was punching Zimmerman in the face and smacking his head off the kerb. In that situation, you are risking brain damage or death in an instant. He got shot for doing that. Yes, Martins behaviour was as just as much a matter of cultural conditioning, but liberals love hip hop culture which is all about suggesting ways that young black men end up dead or in jail.

Zimmerman defended himself because he was being physically assaulted. He also has a right to be concerned about who is walking around his neighbourhood after dark. It's not a good thing that Martin got shot. It will happen if you have guns readily available. No matter how much you want it to be true that you can have guns and not have any accidents, murders of innocents or corruption, reality is not on the side of your stupid fucking fantasies.

If young black men have a high incidence of crime, then, when you are in that fight or flight moment trying to assess someone for danger, taking into account their blackness is a judgement the brain is likely to rush to. This is not necessarily racist, although it is about race. But if you saw, for example, a crowbar in the persons hands that might have the same effect. It's not a necessarily racist perspective. In fact, Zimmerman sounds like the kind of guy who would probably say something like - 'The high crime rate among blacks is a consequence of their social disadvantage and a problem we are all somewhat responsible for.'

But of course, America is simply in permanent hysteria over black people.

I see this because of my outsider perspective and its really sick. It seems like blacks play a very deep and specific role in the white american consciousness. It seems like you can basically divide politics into two tribes - pro and anti black. They are either innocent victims of oppression and thus angelic or the CAUSE of all americans problems. This is ridiculous.

Its also obvious they will NEVER be allowed to just be people whose skin colour is an appendage to their identity. They will always be black people before they are people. Both the left and the right have reasons for this. It's a stupid game that everybody plays.

Many white liberals simply hate blacks at a deep unconscious level and see themselves as their christ like shepherds who will condescendingly liberate them and have some of that innocent moral righteousness rub off on them in the process.

its like BUT I DONT UNDERSTAND? HOW CAN I NOT BE BLAMED FOR THIS? IF ITS NOT MY WHITENESSES FAULT THEN HOW IS REALITY STILL FUNCTIONING?

And mainly people on the right just seem to think that America would function perfectly if it weren't for black people. As if they cause all crime.

You took slaves and then once they'd done their work you found it awkward to deal with them. You are not founded on the noble freedom you think you are. Fucking move on already.