[Rob Instigator]

US Department of Defense awarded over $5 Billion worth of new contracts on September 30, the day before the "shut-down" Read about them here. http://www.defense.gov/contracts/con...ontractid=5144 It is hilarious that most of these contracts state that they were "open competition" but for most of them only one "bid" was received. Yeah. That's how pork works.

[Bytor Peltor]

More Obamacare related = OUCH!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Its childish, but there was this much backlash and more over the initial implementation of Social Security too.. They made FDR out to be a bigger socialist than any in Europe, and fought hard for several years in the legislature. 70 years later its the hallmark staple of American life, and nobody from any political ideology opposes it outright. We had an even worse tiff before between the political parties, over a little thing called slavery. The assholes lost then too, and then lost again when they tried to revive it in the Civil Rights era. And for all the war crimes and lies of this and every presidency, Affordable Care Act will not be eliminated, it will go on as planned, and hopefully will be readjusted and improved rather than repealed.. The GOP increasingly look alienated from the majority of Americans. Its not that the Democrats are necessarily less tone-deaf, its just they appear that way. If the government is really "shut-down" then how come there are still military operations going on? Ain't got time to pay government workers or keep public services running for ordinary Americans but heaven forbid we stop the war machine for even a day

[Rob Instigator]

kiss - war machine http://youtu.be/RYN5ezObW6I

[!@#$%!]

social security: i'd rather not have 15% of my paycheck taken by a government that promises to pay me with junk bonds sold to china and then threatens to default on its bills every 3 months.

[floatingslowly]

lol!!!!1

[tesla69]

There is some fear the Fed Govt might take private 401K type plans like in Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Ireland, France, Portugal, Bolivia & Argentina - they'll issue some kind of certificate that will be meaningless if they say so.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by tesla69

There is some fear the Fed Govt might take private 401K type plans like in Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Ireland, France, Portugal, Bolivia & Argentina - they'll issue some kind of certificate that will be meaningless if they say so.

i was starting to reply to you, but then i realized i didn't know what you were actually saying.

who takes what from whom like where?

in other words-- what are you saying happened in hungary/poland/bulgaria/ireland/france/portugal/bolivia/argentina?

in other words-- what's the premise, so we can follow your conclusion?

[!@#$%!]

oh shit, i've been googling the names (while i wait for your reply)

looks like in the past decade these countries have been seizing private pension funds (YIKES!) and moving them into state funds.

but seems like these were pension funds not individual investments/ accounts. trying to figure out what's what.

[!@#$%!]

ps- okay, here a good point to start reading

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Th...ivate-pensions

the fuckers!!!

[dead_battery]

When discussing important political issues its important to set emotions to one side
So let me just say that the sub human right wing pieces of fucking shit that want poor people to pay 3000 instead of 700 for health care because socialism are the most despicable fucking cockroach sociopath bastard pieces of fucking excrement to crawl out of the sewers. The fucking scum cunt bastard pieces of fucking shit who are shutting down a government for the profits of the corporate greed whores who fund them are directly responsible for the murder of innocent people who have died and suffered immensely by being denied their basic right as a human being to medical treatment. These pieces of shit are no better than terrorists and should be spat on shamed and smacked in the fucking face the economically illiterate pieces of fucking garbage may they burn in fucking hell the cunt bastard scum

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

When discussing important political issues its important to set emotions to one side
So let me just say that the sub human right wing pieces of fucking shit that want poor people to pay 3000 instead of 700 for health care because socialism are the most despicable fucking cockroach sociopath bastard pieces of fucking excrement to crawl out of the sewers. The fucking scum cunt bastard pieces of fucking shit who are shutting down a government for the profits of the corporate greed whores who fund them are directly responsible for the murder of innocent people who have died and suffered immensely by being denied their basic right as a human being to medical treatment. These pieces of shit are no better than terrorists and should be spat on shamed and smacked in the fucking face the economically illiterate pieces of fucking garbage may they burn in fucking hell the cunt bastard scum

funny thing, what they're saying-- it's not even "socialism". it's a mandate that everyone purchases PRIVATE insurance so that people do not resort to the emergency room at the last minute and so that hospitals do not get stuck with an unpaid tab at the end (because per that commie ronald reagan's law emergency rooms must provide care to whoever requests it regardless of their ability to pay).

the ACA is not a socialist plan, it's basically a mandate for personal responsibility within a private market, i.e., a "conservative" thing, and as such it was proposed by nixon and implemented by romney, but now that a black kenyan muslim signed it it's somehow highly unacceptable and a scandal. pure bullshit politicking and manipulation.

anyway, yeah.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

funny thing, what they're saying-- it's not even "socialism". it's a mandate that everyone purchases PRIVATE insurance so that people do not resort to the emergency room at the last minute and so that hospitals do not get stuck with an unpaid tab at the end (because per that commie ronald reagan's law emergency rooms must provide care to whoever requests it regardless of their ability to pay).

the ACA is not a socialist plan, it's basically a mandate for personal responsibility within a private market, i.e., a "conservative" thing, and as such it was proposed by nixon and implemented by romney, but now that a black kenyan muslim signed it it's somehow highly unacceptable and a scandal. pure bullshit politicking and manipulation.

anyway, yeah.

The "socialist" aspect which the "Republicans" are fighting mad about are the subsidies and medicare expansions that are a part of the Affordable Care Act, not just the mandate itself. Fighting against the mandate makes them sound like some kind of libertarian jihadists, a superhero for the tea party folks, but the reality is their ideological beef lies more so with the subsidies (which they only seem to believe should benefit military contractors, major banks, and expansive multi-national corporations) and medicare (which they think is some kind of hand out, those mercurially cruel bastards!)...

Its simple math. Everyone in the pool or the rates go up for everybody who is already in, and since everybody can't afford to get into the pool, Uncle Sam has to do the right thing and subsidize the price. The scandal is that if it were outright socialized medicine it just might be both (a) fairer and (b) cheaper.

[dead_battery]

I have socialized health care and the only criticisms of it are the fact that sometimes bad doctors can be difficult to get rid of. Also because the doc doesnt have to sell you anything they can sometimes be less interested in pursuing eveey option when it comes to non life threatening ailments. That's about it. It works well and no one has to go 60k into debt. Symbol and suchfriends make very good points. Obamacare isnt even enough but its at least a start and is very necessary.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by dead_battery

. Symbol and suchfriends make very good points. Obamacare isnt even enough but its at least a start and is very necessary.

It is crucially necessary. In all the "middle-class" debates about the mandate, what has been lost is the substantive benefits to poorer people, and the long term big arc benefits to society as a whole. When "poor" people visit ERs, public hospitals, and subsidized neighborhood clinics for healthcare, who pays for this? Magic? Smoke and mirrors? NO. The taxpayers pay this, and they pay an exaggerated rate because of all the gimmicks in place to appease the conservatives ideologues who don't want to admit that by and large, we already have socialized medicine, why not go all in then?

So it would be actually cheaper for ALL taxpayers to expand medicare and increase subsidies for health-care for the poor and working poor people. In California we have Medicaid, but you have to have children to be enrolled. Medicaid, while expensive, has actually saved probably TWICE what it costs by allowing preventative care for families, and by subsidizing their doctor visits to replace the ER. Medicaid works, and it can work better. What California is doing for the ACA is they are expanding Medicaid to included people without children, through the government subsidies. People can either use the subsidies in California to buy a private plan through "the exchange" or can apply for Medicaid or actually some weird combination of both.

[tesla69]

I'm just wondering how will the terrorists determine if they are being watched or not? It is just not fair.

And if a terrorist wants to know if he's on a list, the TSA has approved a convenient, $100 service that allows him to figure it out: the Clear program, which issues IDs to "trusted travelers" to speed them through security lines. Just apply for a Clear card; if you get one, you're not on the list.

[!@#$%!]

i'm actually for free market solutions but an insurance cartel is not free market-- therefore i'd rather have a regulated cartel than an unregulated one. in other words the ACA is better than the shit we had before.

i pay for my dental care out of pocket and it's better than going with some insurance racket. i also have catastrophic health insurance which means i'm only covered for major shit and i pay for my own small things, consultations, etc-- it's not that much really. i see it as car isurance-- i don't need them to pay for my new tires, oil changes, etc-- i only need them to pay for major surgeries etc.

anyway--

anything from 25,000 to 45,000 have been dying every year for lack of health insurance-- that's way more than bin laden killed, and yet i'm not hearing anyone say we should nuke and invade some cuntry for it.

problem with subsidies is that they might perversely incentivize poverty, but i think there's enough of a tier that people can go up the ladder easily-- right now you have to be either dirt poor to middle class. not a good thing. especially with "preexisting shits". i saw the story of this family that had to keep their income below a certain limit so they could get coverage for their autistic kid-- that will now end.

of course costs will spread through the system so that means an increase for some people. that's the point of insurance though-- to spread risk. if everyone knew what their risk was you'd need no insurance.

another advantage is the ability to purchase your own plan frees people from being slaves to a certain job. i hope that an entrepreneurial renaissance will be a side effect of this. freedom, fuckers!

btw, i've been trying to shop for new insurance but the exchanges are overloaded. which is a good thing ha ha ha.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by tesla69

I'm just wondering how will the terrorists determine if they are being watched or not? It is just not fair.

And if a terrorist wants to know if he's on a list, the TSA has approved a convenient, $100 service that allows him to figure it out: the Clear program, which issues IDs to "trusted travelers" to speed them through security lines. Just apply for a Clear card; if you get one, you're not on the list.

If they're on the No Fly List as legitimate terrorists, then they obviously wouldn't be able to get cleared. What the "clear card" can do is allow for people who have wrongfully been placed on the list to get off, and that is a good thing, Uncle Same throws around the label of "terrorist" a bit to freely, there are perfectly ordinary and legitimate people wrongfully placed on these lists, sometimes out of guilt by association, sometimes out of a misunderstanding, sometimes some kind corrupt game.

[Bytor Peltor]

Look what's turned: 100

[chocolate_ladyland]

I fucking love free health care