Cotton Crown question

cellscape · 12.16.2023, 09:58 AM

I haven't been on this forum in a while but had a question. Has anyone considered how closely Cotton Crown resemble Pharoah Sanders "The Creator has a Master Plan"?

They are free jazz fans. Think they could have been influenced by that song in writing Cotton Crown.

Been wondering that and if Acid Mothers Temple's "Pink Lady Lemonade" Came from Amon Duul II "She Came Through the Chimney" off Yeti.

The Soup Nazi · 12.16.2023, 07:53 PM

There's an ad-hoc thread for this:

http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/sho...01#post1425701

cellscape · 12.17.2023, 10:36 AM

Thanks soup nazi. I suppose that's a better place to post although that thread has nothing about this and I was really hoping someone might have insight on a connection. The similarities just don't seem like they could be coincidence and "the Creator has a master plan" was a pretty popular song for the genre (even covered by Bardo Pond). Cotton Crown doesn't sound like a cover so much as SY's reinvention of the song.

Chris Lawrence · 12.17.2023, 02:21 PM

Can you elaborate on the similarities? I admit I don't hear anything resembling "Cotton Crown" in either the music or the vocal melody.

!@#$%! · 12.17.2023, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Lawrence

Can you elaborate on the similarities? I admit I don't hear anything resembling "Cotton Crown" in either the music or the vocal melody.

there's a similar cadence i can hear it after like 2:40

it's a returning theme before/after the improvisation part

but also in it hear the bass (piano?) notes undeath that come from coltrane's "a love supreme"

cellscape · 12.17.2023, 07:19 PM

So at 2:40 I can hear it coming in a bit, but a little before 8 minutes when the lyrics come in on the original 32 min Pharaoh Sanders song I almost feel like I could sub Cotton Crown lyrics into the melody and it would fit perfect.

!@#$%! · 12.17.2023, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellscape

So at 2:40 I can hear it coming in a bit, but a little before 8 minutes when the lyrics come in on the original 32 min Pharaoh Sanders song I almost feel like I could sub Cotton Crown lyrics into the melody and it would fit perfect.

yup yup yup... but do you hear the coltrane also in the low notes?

a love supreme
a love supreme
a love supreme
a love supreme

i cant be imagining it hahaha especially given the subject matter

Chris Lawrence · 12.18.2023, 01:20 AM

Yeah I immediately thought of "A Love Supreme"!

12.16.2023, 09:58 AM	#1
cellscape little trouble girl Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 76	I haven't been on this forum in a while but had a question. Has anyone considered how closely Cotton Crown resemble Pharoah Sanders "The Creator has a Master Plan"? They are free jazz fans. Think they could have been influenced by that song in writing Cotton Crown. Been wondering that and if Acid Mothers Temple's "Pink Lady Lemonade" Came from Amon Duul II "She Came Through the Chimney" off Yeti.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

12.16.2023, 07:53 PM	#2
The Soup Nazi invito al cielo Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Del Boca Vista Posts: 18,230	There's an ad-hoc thread for this: http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/sho...01#post1425701 __________________ GADJI BERI BIMBA GLANDRIDI LAULI LONNI CADORI GADJAM A BIM BERI GLASSALA GLANDRIDI E GLASSALA TUFFM I ZIMBRA
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

12.17.2023, 10:36 AM	#3
cellscape little trouble girl Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 76	Thanks soup nazi. I suppose that's a better place to post although that thread has nothing about this and I was really hoping someone might have insight on a connection. The similarities just don't seem like they could be coincidence and "the Creator has a master plan" was a pretty popular song for the genre (even covered by Bardo Pond). Cotton Crown doesn't sound like a cover so much as SY's reinvention of the song.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

12.17.2023, 02:21 PM	#4
Chris Lawrence Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: southwest canada Posts: 1,888	Can you elaborate on the similarities? I admit I don't hear anything resembling "Cotton Crown" in either the music or the vocal melody. __________________ http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang // original folk blues ... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i'm the boy that can enjoy invisibility. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

12.17.2023, 07:19 PM	#6
cellscape little trouble girl Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 76	So at 2:40 I can hear it coming in a bit, but a little before 8 minutes when the lyrics come in on the original 32 min Pharaoh Sanders song I almost feel like I could sub Cotton Crown lyrics into the melody and it would fit perfect.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

12.18.2023, 01:20 AM	#8
Chris Lawrence Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: southwest canada Posts: 1,888	Yeah I immediately thought of "A Love Supreme"! __________________ http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang // original folk blues ... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .i'm the boy that can enjoy invisibility. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|