[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Libya: Contact group creates fund for rebels

 

Libya's rebels say they need more money to keep fighting Col Muammar Gaddafi's forces


The international contact group on Libya has agreed to create a temporary fund to assist rebel groups, during talks in Rome.
French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe says the fund should be operational within weeks.
The group of Nato countries, Arab states and other nations are discussing ways to increase pressure on Col Muammar Gaddafi.
Meanwhile, a ship has evacuated people from the besieged port of Misrata.
Urgent request Speaking in Rome, Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said the creation of a new financial mechanism would "permit funds to be channelled effectively and transparently" to the rebels.
He said further details would be announced at the meeting later on Thursday.
The move followed an urgent request from the rebels, based in the eastern city of Benghazi.
The rebels' Transitional National Council says it needs $2bn-$3bn (£1.2bn-£1.8bn) in the coming months for military salaries, food, medicine and other basic supplies.
British Foreign Secretary William Hague insisted that any financial assistance to the rebels would not be spent on weapons.

 

The Libya Contact Group has been looking at ways to fund the Libyan uprising against Col Gaddafi
"This [money] will help them to keep basic services going... because in the east of Libya they still need to be educating people, to keep public services moving and they have to meet the expenses of all that and they don't have much tax revenue at the moment," he said.
Mr Hague said efforts would also be made to explore how Col Gaddafi's government could be prevented from exporting oil or importing refined products.
Meanwhile, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the US was trying to free more than $30bn it had frozen in Libyan assets.
She said the government wanted "to tap some portion of those assets owned by Gaddafi and the Libyan government in the United States, so we can make those funds available to help the Libyan people".
The contact group is also expected to discuss Italy's call for a cut-off date to military action.
Diplomats expelled Meanwhile the aid ship - Red Star - chartered by the International Organization for Migration (IOM), has managed to take 1,300 passengers to Benghazi, despite being hit by shellfire as it docked. Five people were killed.
Amid scenes of panic, families were separated and the ship had to re-dock twice before finally setting sail with mostly wounded people and stranded foreign workers.
They have now arrived, tired and bedraggled, in Benghazi, says the BBC's John Sudworth.
Rebel forces in Libya hold much of the east of the country, around Benghazi, while Col Gaddafi holds most of the west.
Nato is enforcing a UN mandate to protect civilians caught in the conflict.
In a report to the UN Security Council, the chief prosecutor for the International Criminal Court Luis Moreno-Ocampo, said between 500 and 700 people were believed to have been killed in Libya in February alone - the month the conflict began.
He said he was seeking warrants for the arrest of top Libyan officials, but did not name them.
On Wednesday, Britain announced it was expelling two more Libyan diplomats, after the ambassador was ordered out of the country last weekend.
"I judged that the behaviour of these individuals had become unacceptable, and that they should therefore be declared persona non grata," said Foreign Secretary William Hague.
He did not explain exactly why they were being expelled beyond saying "their activities were contrary to the interests of the UK".

[the ikara cult]

Do you mean this Suchy?
where is the text from?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Do you mean this Suchy?
where is the text from?

What?

and it came from BBC

[floatingslowly]

an army marches on it's wallet.

show me someone who fights free and I'll show you a fucking liar.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

What?

and it came from BBC

I mean wheres your link?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

an army marches on it's wallet.

show me someone who fights free and I'll show you a fucking liar.

yes, but this army started from scratch from a bunch of otherwise non-mercenary type basketball shoe wearing kind of people, and has been radically highjacked by the traditional African warlordism, and as such, has become a cry for money. Not there may not be any legitimate need, but these "rebels" have not exactly been freedom fighters since the beginning of all this, and now the truth really comes out. First it was, send us bombing raids and Western military intervention, now its just cut us the check like the rest of the corrupt assholes across the world living on American bribery. Fuck it. That's why I became an Orthodox Christian, it was the most radical of all philosophies. It teaches that since the world is such an absolutely crass and corrupt place, radically reject confrontation by going perpetually inwards. In Orthodox, all the world's problems are only your own, so you must go inwards not outside. There is never anyone more to blame for anything in the world than yourself.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

I mean wheres your link?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13292852

[the ikara cult]

the reason i asked for that is you can never know where these things are coming from without a link

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

the reason i asked for that is you can never know where these things are coming from without a link

I didn't post the link because I saw this same story on several news sources so I though it was already front page and commonly accepted as then legitimate (thought not necessarily)

[the ikara cult]

for me, if the money has to go somewhere it has to go to the rebels.

The thing about Iraq is Saddam should have been removed in the first Gulf war, and there had to be a no fly zone over Northern Iraq for a decade when he wasnt. Then there were the sanctions which were unavoidable as long as he stayed in power. You just dont want that situation happening again, because then a war might be started 10 years from now to remove Gadaffi, and nobody likes how that turned out before.

[floatingslowly]

the first clue should have came early on when they made it a point to secure the oil port and the congratulatory news that "the rebels" were able to get a tanker-full sent off to the world market.

suck it down, europe. taste the revolution.

[the ikara cult]

If you think it was going to be a Green, GM-Free, chip-fat-fuelled revolution youre living in la la land. you seem to think that the natural resources of Libya being in the hands of its people rather than a dictator is a bad thing?

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

If you think it was going to be a Green, GM-Free, chip-fat-fuelled revolution youre living in la la land. you seem to think that the natural resources of Libya being in the hands of its people rather than a dictator is a bad thing?

oh, I love the story of Robin Hood, but if you really think that the Qatari checks paying for those "rebel" tankers are ending up in the "hands of it's people" and not the pockets of some fatcats in France and Italy then you, kind sir, are deluded.

[floatingslowly]

and I reckon that the mere threat of that ever changing spurred NATO into action, because we all know the French army couldn't do it alone.

it's hard to win ground and surrender at the same time.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

oh, I love the story of Robin Hood, but if you really think that the Qatari checks paying for those "rebel" tankers are ending up in the "hands of it's people" and not the pockets of some fatcats in France and Italy then you, kind sir, are deluded.

And Gadaffi is better?

Political corruption is bad but its alot better than a massacre. These things arent black and white, of course, there will be elements in the rebel movement who want to seize power for themselves. Im under no illusions that the "arab Spring" is entirely led by secular trade unionists, but the best thing we have done is stop the masscre in Benghazi with military force. I get that youre cynical about certain aspects of the people fighting against Gadaffi, but do you have any constructive criticism? Or are you just another man with a keyboard blaming everything on Oil and America?

[floatingslowly]

where have I blamed America? I believe I said Qatar, Italy and France. America does not buy any oil from Libya.

Gaddafi is nothing but a glorified playboy warlord. "the people" would certainly be better off without him, but ultimatley, at the higher echelons of this "revolution" you will surely find the same corrupting greed. there is simply too much fucking money at stake.

all of that said, I applaud your idealism. maybe someday we can do it right.

[floatingslowly]

for the record, I have hated Gaddafi passionately since 1988 when his agents destroyed the Pan Am flight carrying MY monthly subscription to White Dwarf magazine.

fucking prick needs his head mounted on the gates of Tripoli.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

for the record, I have hated Gaddafi passionately since 1988 when his agents destroyed the Pan Am flight carrying MY monthly subscription to White Dwarf magazine.

fucking prick needs his head mounted on the gates of Tripoli.

nothing to disagree with in your last 2 posts, especially the White Dwarf reference. Perhaps you are less optimistic than I am, but i think the internet's second greatest achievement after bringing you and I together is allowing the revolutions we've seen to take place, and giving opressed people easy access to information from the outside world. For me the rebel movement in Libya needs to be encouraged, theyve got a long long way to go, they wont turn into France overnight, but in a choice of two my support goes to them.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

where have I blamed America? I believe I said Qatar, Italy and France. America does not buy any oil from Libya.

Gaddafi is nothing but a glorified playboy warlord. "the people" would certainly be better off without him, but ultimatley, at the higher echelons of this "revolution" you will surely find the same corrupting greed. there is simply too much fucking money at stake.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to floatingslowly again.

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

for me, if the money has to go somewhere it has to go to the rebels.

not necessarily, who are these dudes, where do they come from? In African politics in particular and in Libya as well, its generally warlords. If you look at what this rebellion has evolved into in the past months, its just that. Compare it to say what happened concurrently in Ivory Coast, yet another unfortunately typical African situation. A lot of lives were lost in cruel and callous pitch battles in the street. For a few weeks it was as bad as it every was in Ivory Coast, which is a country that has seen no lack of hardships. Now the international community and foreign military under UN blue helmets gave Outtara and his own warlords and militias the thumbs up, and he moved in his forces even with French air support. Now he and his warlords are firmly in power with full international support. Is Outtaro a better asshole than Gbagbo, of course, it goes without saying. However in the end, what does it really all come down to? The same thing as in Libya..

Originally Posted by BBC News

Meanwhile, the EU has signed a deal worth 44m euros ($64m; £39m) in aid for the country.Europe's development commissioner Andris Piebalgs, who signed the deal in Ivory Coast, said speed was of the essence.

Originally Posted by afonso

That's a rather histrionic conclusion, don't you think suchfriends? What do you have to say about Gaddafi's hired mercenaries?

And if Gaddafi is such a heartless Hitler and is purely humanitarian intervention, then why is Yemen, Bahrain, and Syria entirely off the hook for what is turning out to be far more atrocious crises. In Libya, Gaddafi is fighting a civil war against an armed uprising, where as in those other places I mentioned genuine, unarmed, civil protesters have been slaughtered in the street by the hundreds now just in a few passing weeks

I do not necessarily say the foreign military should go invade anywhere else, after all, what have the foreign militaries managed to do in Libya? Have they stopped anyone from killing anybody? Nonsense, in fact quite the opposite, the foreign militaries have been having a blast doing what it is that militaries do best, killing people

No, I bring up Syria and Yemen and Ivory Coast to point out exactly to the point that there is something blatantly wrong in Libya, and it looks like it has a lot more do to with money than anything else, after all, there are a dozen larger scale humanitarian crises going on concurrently and yet somehow Libya takes the top priority consistently. And then these rebels have the nerve to ask for $3 BILLION with a straight face? Its literally unprecedented, that is some serious ferria..

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

not necessarily, who are these dudes, where do they come from? In African politics in particular and in Libya as well, its generally warlords. If you look at what this rebellion has evolved into in the past months, its just that. Compare it to say what happened concurrently in Ivory Coast, yet another unfortunately typical African situation. A lot of lives were lost in cruel and callous pitch battles in the street. For a few weeks it was as bad as it every was in Ivory Coast, which is a country that has seen no lack of hardships. Now the international community and foreign military under UN blue helmets gave Outtara and his own warlords and militias the thumbs up, and he moved in his forces even with French air support. Now he and his warlords are firmly in power with full international support. Is Outtaro a better asshole than Gbagbo, of course, it goes without saying. However in the end, what does it really all come down to? The same thing as in Libya..


And if Gaddafi is such a heartless Hitler and is purely humanitarian intervention, then why is Yemen, Bahrain, and Syria entirely off the hook for what is turning out to be far more atrocious crises. In Libya, Gaddafi is fighting a civil war against an armed uprising, where as in those other places I mentioned genuine, unarmed, civil protesters have been slaughtered in the street by the hundreds now just in a few passing weeks

I do not necessarily say the foreign military should go invade anywhere else, after all, what have the foreign militaries managed to do in Libya? Have they stopped anyone from killing anybody? Nonsense, in fact quite the opposite, the foreign militaries have been having a blast doing what it is that militaries do best, killing people

No, I bring up Syria and Yemen and Ivory Coast to point out exactly to the point that there is something blatantly wrong in Libya, and it looks like it has a lot more do to with money than anything else, after all, there are a dozen larger scale humanitarian crises going on concurrently and yet somehow Libya takes the top priority consistently. And then these rebels have the nerve to ask for $3 BILLION with a straight face? Its literally unprecedented, that is some serious ferria..

Plenty of unarmed people have been killed in Libya too

I want to answer your point about "a dozen larger scale humanitarian crises going on concurrently and yet somehow Libya takes the top priority consistently"

thats a great point, and a point that never goes away. But the thing about international politics is the events in Libya have much more of a pervcussive effect on the region; the solution in Syria changes with the situation in Libya, as does the most important state in the region; Iran

My ideals are that the Ivory Coast, Sudan, Zimbabwe, and other African nations under similar oppressive regimes become free. I believe in universal human rights, the people in those countries deserve the liberties you and I have. The fact is that the Arab/Persian world is politically more important in the advancement of those liberties.

If i could push a button and bring an end to the war in Darfur, even if it meant i had to swear loyalty to Jesus Effin Christ, id do it. Fact is we live ina world where evil people have power.