[Glice]

Yeah, absolutely. The danger with comparing us to Egypt (for instance) is that I'm not convinced we have it substantially 'better'. Ok, we have a great many more freedoms, but we're not perfect, and we should certainly be very cautious of assuming that we're 'advanced' or the perfect instance of democracy. But Egypt [et al] do make us realise that it's utterly critical to vote, even when disillusioned with the voting process. Libya's fucked, but it was a relatively peaceful resistance, largely democratic, which inspired change. Unfortunately, it forced the hand of a cunt, but you have to hope it's all for the good.

[Sorry, bit tl;dr] Fundamentally, I think most reasonable people realise it's important to vote, regardless of that voting system being flawed.

On the Arab front, I've been particularly enjoying Naseer Shamma's updates (he's an Oud player, and very fine he is too).

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by Glice

Yeah, absolutely. The danger with comparing us to Egypt (for instance) is that I'm not convinced we have it substantially 'better'. Ok, we have a great many more freedoms, but we're not perfect, and we should certainly be very cautious of assuming that we're 'advanced' or the perfect instance of democracy. But Egypt [et al] do make us realise that it's utterly critical to vote, even when disillusioned with the voting process. Libya's fucked, but it was a relatively peaceful resistance, largely democratic, which inspired change. Unfortunately, it forced the hand of a cunt, but you have to hope it's all for the good.

[Sorry, bit tl;dr] Fundamentally, I think most reasonable people realise it's important to vote, regardless of that voting system being flawed.

On the Arab front, I've been particularly enjoying Naseer Shamma's updates (he's an Oud player, and very fine he is too).

we aint perfect of course. But if you speak to a person from Iraq or Afghanistan, we are lucky to have been born here. At least here we have a chance of some kind.

The Libya resistance happened under the shroud of Blair and Bush accepting Gadaffi back into the international fold, so they were rebelling against someone who the democratic nations of the west had made a deal with about 5 years earlier. They could have been forgiven for thinking that we would support the dictator because we welcomed him back to the diplomatic community... and it seems like, shamefully, they were right.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

subhumans really are crap. If youre gonna reject the political system of the country at least go the whole way and voteCRASS

dude, now I just know you're fucking with me

have you ever actually compared the density of intellectualism behind subhumans verses the relatively remedial and almost childish complaining that Crass has? Now don't get me wrong, I love Crass more so than about any other of the anarcho bands aside from subhumans, but what you're saying can't hardly be based on facts.

Subhumans are probably the most intellectual and least juvenille of ANY of the decades of anarcho-crust bands that have come out, which is precisely why their fans last longer than high school. I rarely have time for a lot of chaos punk section of my iPod since I had to grow up, but subhumans always finds a place in heavy rotation, especially in this rather chaotic time in the world.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

"People are scared to say hello
The flick of the fag the shifting eyes
Stare in amusement then look away
The conscious battle of who to despise
Self-restriction and self paranoia
Self-belief and the silent laugh
The inner conflict between one another
When you're all the same it seems so daft
Nobody says anything on buses
And that's why people kill themselves
Desperation against the world
Can't find a way to express themselves
Society breeds hate and derision
But society is only a mass of people
Striving to be god
At the expense of others
Striving to be better than their next door neighbour"

The things that you never knew were there
Or was it that you didn't care
The biggest problem face to face
An apathetic human race

There's a hole in your mind where nothing exists
Except fear and loathing of the strange but true
Facts that defy your inner intelligence
Like man kills himself for something to do
It's a dying world

and also, they are sincerely some of the most stand-up guys you will ever meet in the punk scene

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

dude, now I just know you're fucking with me

have you ever actually compared the density of intellectualism behind subhumans verses the relatively remedial and almost childish complaining that Crass has? Now don't get me wrong, I love Crass more so than about any other of the anarcho bands aside from subhumans, but what you're saying can't hardly be based on facts.

Subhumans are probably the most intellectual and least juvenille of ANY of the decades of anarcho-crust bands that have come out, which is precisely why their fans last longer than high school. I rarely have time for a lot of chaos punk section of my iPod since I had to grow up, but subhumans always finds a place in heavy rotation, especially in this rather chaotic time in the world.

politically and intellectually i dont buy into either of them, though i appreciate the artistic value, i just think that Crass succeed at doing what they did more than Subhumans

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

politically and intellectually i dont buy into either of them, though i appreciate the artistic value, i just think that Crass succeed at doing what they did more than Subhumans

maybe its different in the UK, but SUBHUMANS patches and fanbases here in the US is almost what defines punks with integrity from punks who are in it for the fashion of youth (and punk it very very fashionable again)

In that regard, I would have to say that subhumans were WAAAY more successful because they still manage to rally sincere punks to the cause of awareness and unity. Plus, SubhumanS is still a very active scene, so it is more dynamic and growing (again, at least here in the US)

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

maybe its different in the UK, but SUBHUMANS patches and fanbases here in the US is almost what defines punks with integrity from punks who are in it for the fashion of youth (and punk it very very fashionable again)

In that regard, I would have to say that subhumans were WAAAY more successful because they still manage to rally sincere punks to the cause of awareness and unity. Plus, SubhumanS is still a very active scene, so it is more dynamic and growing (again, at least here in the US)

I dont think theres any such thing as a "sincere punk" beyond someone who styles their hair and jeans in the socially accepable way. I dress plain and inexpensive.

[Glice]

Crass. Always Crass.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

I dont think theres any such thing as a "sincere punk" beyond someone who styles their hair and jeans in the socially accepable way. I dress plain and inexpensive.

and that explains entirely why you don't exactly know what you are talking about

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

and that explains entirely why you don't exactly know what you are talking about

Suchy, youre such a nice guy, i dont want to trash you we are going our thing x

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Suchy, youre such a nice guy, i dont want to trash you we are going our thing x

please, I didn't mean to insult you, maybe I wrote that i bit more facetiously than I should have. In a more polite way then,

"perhaps then, your opinions regarding the ethos and reality of the punk culture are a bit shallow and disingenuous, and while I otherwise think you are a stand up guy and very much enjoy your ideas and contributions to the forum, in this particular instance you are clearly misinformed in your analysis, as there is a bit much more to punk culture and community than just style of clothing and outward appearance, and to judge the sincerity of punks within this community solely by appearance reflects either your innocent ignorance or naivete."

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

please, I didn't mean to insult you, maybe I wrote that i bit more facetiously than I should have. In a more polite way then,

"perhaps then, your opinions regarding the ethos and reality of the punk culture are a bit shallow and disingenuous, and while I otherwise think you are a stand up guy and very much enjoy your ideas and contributions to the forum, in this particular instance you are clearly misinformed in your analysis, as there is a bit much more to punk culture and community than just style of clothing and outward appearance, and to judge the sincerity of punks within this community solely by appearance reflects either your innocent ignorance or naivete."

I know, its all love

In response, i shall quote the unimpeachable source

Punk Rock

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

I know, its all love

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to the ikara cult again.

[floatingslowly]

zub hum manz don't really have any good videos. at least Xrass makes The Sex Pisotols and The Clash look like dirty stinkin' hippies.

then again, it doesn't really matter because US punk is the only punk that matters.