[Toilet & Bowels]

people who haven't taken the time to learn to play/use an instrument trying to play free jazz or something resembling free jazz.

[king_buzzo]

Yes. Agreed.

[atari 2600]

(chorus of hallelujahs)

Yep, shut down the asshead charlatans.

[pantophobia]

indeed

[Iain]

Not necessarily agreed but I suppose to I do for the most part. I've more of a problem with people starting a band and not bringing anything remotely unique or interesting to the table. There's way too much of that kind of thing going on. I'm thinking of the hordes of almost identical 'noise' types. That fucks me off more probably due to the fact that it is way more prevalent than talentless free jazz types.

[pantophobia]

Originally Posted by Iain

Not necessarily agreed but I suppose to I do for the most part. I've more of a problem with people starting a band and not bringing anything remotely unique or interesting to the table. There's way too much of that kind of thing going on. I'm thinking of the hordes of almost identical 'noise' types. That fucks me off more probably due to the fact that it is way more prevalent than talentless free jazz types.

that is a good point, and besides, much of the noise thing is a trend right now, anyone that can circuit bend or is good with electronics just start up and release what ever the hell they record, it's definitely why i soured on a lot of Midwest scene, deal there is if you have enough testosterone and fist pumping (with a dash of misogyny), that people will ignore the fact that you aren't original and don't really get it

[Savage Clone]

I would expand this to include basically anyone who approaches "free"music of any type as if you shouldn't need put as much consideration into the sounds you are making as you would if you were doing something more "conventional." Also, people who make it painfully obvious that they are not remotely paying attention to the sounds the other musicians in their group are making.

[atsonicpark]

is this an anti-greg ginn post?

[Danny Himself]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

is this an anti-greg ginn post?

I thought he was talking about Thurston.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Iain

Not necessarily agreed but I suppose to I do for the most part. I've more of a problem with people starting a band and not bringing anything remotely unique or interesting to the table. There's way too much of that kind of thing going on. I'm thinking of the hordes of almost identical 'noise' types. That fucks me off more probably due to the fact that it is way more prevalent than talentless free jazz types.

yes

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Danny Himself

I thought he was talking about Thurston.

no, thurston moore has taken the time to learn his instrument

[Iain]

Yeah, but that doesn't seem to stop Thurston from tossing of some half arsed bollocks and commiting it to disc.

I'm less against people having no instrument training than I am against people going in with no consideration. I'll always take it on a case by case basis though...obviously.

[atsonicpark]

Yeah, see, just because you don't have instrument "training" doesn't mean you can't come up with good uses for the electric guitar. I mean, it's not like you'll find early Pavement, Half Japanese, or Pussy Galore (three extremes but yeah) guitar books at your local store, but they still make a compelling enough racket... I think, in a way, "training", in the strictest term, can be limiting. I say, have no limits. There's nothing wrong with learnings chords, scales, all that bullshit (at least learn how to tune a little bit) but you don't necassarily need to be Slash and play guitar 12 hours a day in order to make a cool little noise every now and then.

As far as Greg Ginn goes, to reply to myself about my post above, I hate him. Good songwriter, but yeah... One of the worst guitar players I've ever heard. Damn.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Iain

Yeah, but that doesn't seem to stop Thurston from tossing of some half arsed bollocks and commiting it to disc.

I'm less against people having no instrument training than I am against people going in with no consideration. I'll always take it on a case by case basis though...obviously.

thurston moore's half arsed bollocks tends to be when he does things other than play guitar e.g. tape loops, piano, POETRY, although i don't think his poetry is half arsed, it's just terrible.

[atsonicpark]

true, THOUGH his poetry is not as bad as his "sassy" 'tude, his singing the same notes he's playing, and his boring chord combinations.

but yeah.. tape loops, coem on man! jesus!

[luxinterior]

Any thread that turns into a bashing of Thurston's poetry is a good one in my mind.

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Yeah, see, just because you don't have instrument "training" doesn't mean you can't come up with good uses for the electric guitar. I mean, it's not like you'll find early Pavement, Half Japanese, or Pussy Galore (three extremes but yeah) guitar books at your local store, but they still make a compelling enough racket... I think, in a way, "training", in the strictest term, can be limiting. I say, have no limits. There's nothing wrong with learnings chords, scales, all that bullshit (at least learn how to tune a little bit) but you don't necassarily need to be Slash and play guitar 12 hours a day in order to make a cool little noise every now and then.

As far as Greg Ginn goes, to reply to myself about my post above, I hate him. Good songwriter, but yeah... One of the worst guitar players I've ever heard. Damn.

Yeah, but if you start thinking that anyone can make music, see what happens.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Yeah, see, just because you don't have instrument "training" doesn't mean you can't come up with good uses for the electric guitar. I mean, it's not like you'll find early Pavement, Half Japanese, or Pussy Galore (three extremes but yeah) guitar books at your local store, but they still make a compelling enough racket...

yes, those three bands are a great example of how chemistry between members is far more important than technical ability, but on the other hand those bands were probably quite aware of their limitations and used that to their advantage, and i expect that all those bands worked pretty hard on their music if not their technical skill (although nail michael hagerty can play guitar like a MUTHA). also they didn't try to play music that requires years of training like jazz does.

[atsonicpark]

True, I mean, I hope anyone not skilled in the art of instruments at least UNDERSTANDS instruments... take me, I'm not the most skilled guitar player in the world, but I understand rhythm/dynamics enough to write a decent little song if I wanted to./

If someone just bashes on guitar with no musical trainining or thought put into it whatsoever, then it's almost always been shit. Case in point: magick markers.