[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Pookie

And for that I am grateful. I don't want her fantastic, bright, joyful mind cluttered up with bullshit. Child abuse.

tell her: kid, i love you, your mother loves you, BUT YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!!!

[!@#$%!]

also, glice, one of your posts was too convoluted fo me to make 100% sense of it, but were you implying that without religion we'd had only dry reason and have no poetry, no metaphor, no story, no dreams? if so, that's clearly a fallacy-- it's the other way around. we just need to keep sure we retain metaphors and metaphors and don't literalize (spelling, there? not sure-- or semantics for that matter-- "literalize"--- whatever, this is only my part-time language).

anyway, pookie, campbell is best in the bill moyers videos which should be available in the yookay. his serious writing is a bit dated, as he was an old school jungian and his students @ sarah lawrence called him an old fascist. but he's highly entertaining and interesting on teevee.

anyway, speaking of jungian notions, don't discount fairy tales as lesser than religious myths-- they are often interchangeable and even more useful, psychologically speaking.

i find the greek fairytales far more entertaining than the myth if the crucified jewish wonderboy (who is really pagan in origin). the greeks had healthier minds, i think, than the 2000 years of christianity that followed.

[pbradley]

I dig the more existential-angsty bits of the bible, like the "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" on the cross. Powerful stuff. The following part about the resurrection kind of kills it, though.

[knox]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

actually, most Priests that are accussed of sexual abuse of whoever do NOT even go to trial. they are kept safe by the church who then "rehabs" them by making them pray for a while, and then they send them off to another parish, ussually some small town, where no one has heard of his crimes.

they do NOT go to jail.

but what can the church do if you choose to persecute them criminally?

are people saying they expect the church to take care of that too?

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

anyway, pookie, campbell is best in the bill moyers videos which should be available in the yookay. his serious writing is a bit dated, as he was an old school jungian and his students @ sarah lawrence called him an old fascist. but he's highly entertaining and interesting on teevee.

I might try youtubing him before I commit my VALUABLE time to reading a whole book. I'm not a reading machine after all.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

anyway, speaking of jungian notions, don't discount fairy tales as lesser than religious myths-- they are often interchangeable and even more useful, psychologically speaking.

i find the greek fairytales far more entertaining than the myth if the crucified jewish wonderboy (who is really pagan in origin). the greeks had healthier minds, i think, than the 2000 years of christianity that followed.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

tell her: kid, i love you, your mother loves you, BUT YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!!!

Having children adds a new perspective to religious belief. The wishful thinking of an afterlife is easier to go along with if you're talking about somebody you love more than anything.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

also, glice, one of your posts was too convoluted fo me to make 100% sense of it, but were you implying that without religion we'd had only dry reason and have no poetry, no metaphor, no story, no dreams? if so, that's clearly a fallacy-- it's the other way around. we just need to keep sure we retain metaphors and metaphors and don't literalize (spelling, there? not sure-- or semantics for that matter-- "literalize"--- whatever, this is only my part-time language).

anyway, pookie, campbell is best in the bill moyers videos which should be available in the yookay. his serious writing is a bit dated, as he was an old school jungian and his students @ sarah lawrence called him an old fascist. but he's highly entertaining and interesting on teevee.

anyway, speaking of jungian notions, don't discount fairy tales as lesser than religious myths-- they are often interchangeable and even more useful, psychologically speaking.

i find the greek fairytales far more entertaining than the myth if the crucified jewish wonderboy (who is really pagan in origin). the greeks had healthier minds, i think, than the 2000 years of christianity that followed.

None of the above, but I've given up on this point with you. You've made your situation quite clear, I disagree with it, and that's all good in the hood with me. I'm not saying this to be a cunt (for this one time only), I just really think yours and my understanding of the world is incommensurable on this matter.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the greeks had healthier minds, i think, than the 2000 years of christianity that followed.

 

I was just reasoning with some i-dren about this, remember the prominence of sexual pederasty in Greco-Roman culture and society would be similarly appalling in our society today and in many circumstances very much parallels this situation with the Catholic Church.. after all, the Roman Church is the direct preservation and partial resuscitation of the old Roman Empire.. perhaps the Roman Church is practicing criminal anachronisms?

I wonder how much Roman pederasty has been in the Church?

[pbradley]

I remember loling about some sidestepping Plato made about pedagogy and pederasty. I can't remember which dialogue. Symposium, maybe?

Certainly, though, the parallels don't justify molestation and rape.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Certainly, though, the parallels don't justify molestation and rape.

agreed, I'm not into Foucalt, I believe pederasty to be as much a crime as it is today, however I was commenting on what might be an obvious Roman connection. I don't buy into the whole cultural relevancy argument when it comes to actions with appear to be harmful and abusive irregardless to culture or geography

what is happening in the Church is shameful, whats equally unfortunate is that it goes on in schools, protestant churches, and of course families, no institution seems to be spared.

[alyasa]

Frank Costello: Good day, father.
Older Priest: Good day, Francis.
Frank Costello: You recall our chat? Little boys. Sucking on their peckers, etc... and so forth. I am as God made me. Is that your rationale? May I remind you - in this archdiocese, God don't run the bingo.
Young Priest: May I remind you - that pride comes before the fall.
Frank Costello: How's Sister Mary Teresa doing? Had a tasty relationship before she took her vows.
[Costello hands the priests a nude drawing of the nun]
Frank Costello: Enjoy your clams, cocksuckers.

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

 

I was just reasoning with some i-dren about this, remember the prominence of sexual pederasty in Greco-Roman culture and society would be similarly appalling in our society today and in many circumstances very much parallels this situation with the Catholic Church.. after all, the Roman Church is the direct preservation and partial resuscitation of the old Roman Empire.. perhaps the Roman Church is practicing criminal anachronisms?

I wonder how much Roman pederasty has been in the Church?

actually i think your context-free posting of a piece of pottery just proved my point about mental health. while men-boy relations in ancient greece were socially sanctioned, supervised by parents, voluntarilty entered, and devoid of shame, besides including a mentoring/educational relationship, today's morality keeps the same attractions in the deep dark cavern of shameful rape ad molestation, churning pathologies.

a caveat, though---in ancient times one became a man much earlier than today, the jews have traditionally 13, for romans it was 15 or 16, can't recall, and not sure about the greeks, so you could say this was not a "boy" as we understand today, it was a younger man with an older man, whereas american childhoods are protracted until one's early 20s, sometimes even later, and a 13 year old is a fucking immature baby. back in the day women married at 12, started having children, right away, the life cycle was lots shorter, but i do think people were saner, though not by any means saints.

sainthood, by the way-- don't get me started on that bizarre concept. only the diseased complement of sin, hell, eternal damnation, and the life of billions crippled by perpetual shame.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Pookie

Having children adds a new perspective to religious belief. The wishful thinking of an afterlife is easier to go along with if you're talking about somebody you love more than anything.

i was only parodying the kind of mental abuse that is dished out in the name of religious education(s), but about what you say-- yes, though i can only imagine.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by pbradley

I remember loling about some sidestepping Plato made about pedagogy and pederasty. I can't remember which dialogue. Symposium, maybe?

Certainly, though, the parallels don't justify molestation and rape.

wasn't that phaedrus, where socrates takes his favorite boy out of the city walls and they sit around under some kind of shady tree and talk about love, phaedrus tries to seduce the old man, and socrates promotes chaste love over fucking?

i also remember, somewhere, that alcibiades is pissed off at socrates cuz they lied together and socrates refused to fuck him-- he "behaved like his father" or some such thing.

[whorefrost]

I hate these motherfucking faggots. Reinstate the death penalty and string these motherfuckers up, I say.

xx

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i was only parodying the kind of mental abuse that is dished out in the name of religious education(s), but about what you say-- yes, though i can only imagine.

I know you were. I just had an attack of seriousitis.

My dad (a catholic) pressurised my sister into getting her children christened because otherwise they would go to hell if they died (or limbo or whatever) and tried to do the same with us.

As head of the church that sanctions this kind of child abuse I'm going to look into having the pope arrested when he comes to the UK.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by knox

except that what i said is a fact not a theory. peadophiles do search for opportunities to fulfill their fetish deliberately, just do a little research and you will find it. I think there was a documentary that illustrated it quite well, something about friedman.

none of us know the extent of child or sexual abuse in the church, one can only imagine from things we hear. But bear in mind we don't know the extent of child abuse in schools, hospitals, and homes. Fact is it happens more often whitin family, and for that reason is not often reported. So to say it happens more in the church than anywhere else is naive.

it could be that the church doesn't do much to punish them, but aren't they regular citizens that can be considered criminally responsible? it is a crime and it is a matter that has to be dealt with involving the police and law, a church is not the appropriate institution to punish.

We can agree fully on this matter. The home is one of the most dangerous places for a child in some cases. These so called priests are making a mockery of God, and should be punished as any other citizen would in the same circumstance.