[floatingslowly]

speaking of the regrettable side effects of drugs, although it's nigh impossible to make me feel shame for things I say on The Internet, I often regret (and I do mean often) that time I berated an addicted and drug adled ni'k for stealing things and then skipping out on rent.

although at the time it made me chuckle, his depiction of me as a 'rancid moldy cunt' via user notes is far more stinging than, say, suggesting to dear sweet Rosie, that I'm stabbing myself in the heart over Elliot Smith.

please forgive me.

[knox]

I grab knives on weed so I'm not the best example.

[knox]

Originally Posted by jonathan

Most (if not every) culture has used drugs to some extent, so to relativize drug use as something fundamentally unique to this culture is a bit of a stretch. I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying. I have also been recently liberated from the throws of excess, and I'm a much better person for it. That doesn't mean I don't take a hit of some weed every once in a while, or have a beer, but it's all about priorities and moderation. You're overlooking the anti-drug cultural hegemony that is totally blown out of proportion and tells horrendous half-truths about these drugs and their inherent risks.

I definitely agree, all drugs are risky when used excessively. I think honest drug information is exactly what is needed because a well-educated population is one that (theoretically) can make smart choices. I'm a little fucked up by my excessive weed use, I think, if not for all the years I spent listening to the Soft Machine in my room by myself, bowl in hand. I know people that have developed some anxiety issues that they're fairly certain are related to their weed use. I'm pretty sure I have as well. Regardless, had I used weed moderately (twice a week at the very most), I think I would be in a much better position. Same goes for booze. Hallucinageons are a different deal. Really, only certain people can use them successfully. I happen to be one of those people. I'm relatively stable and had overall positive experiences with them. At the same time, I never used them excessively (except salvia) so maybe I'm not one to talk.

The bottom line. Do your research. Know yourself. Moderation.

idk who jonathan is
but he always seems like the one sane person on the board

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by kinnikpasswordforgetter

ever read about the first lsd freaks? they really did believe that it was literally a gateway to god. a cult formed and they went around preaching about it.

then people end up hacking their own arms off in closets.

a girl apparently did that at Philip K. Dick's house.

personally i think 'a scanner darkly' should be required reading for any young idiot who thinks drugs are so 'fucking crazy dude' and that they're going to be a pyschonautic rock star because mommys not around to enforce the taboo.

Before our western cultural revolution did away with the authority and legitimacy of the ancients, people didn't walk haphazardly into drug induced ecstasies, they had shamanistic guides. Even in the pre-Protestant Church, there were Priests to guide folks through the meditation of the Mass and the inducements of the Bread and Wine. People inherently needs plants and potions to break away from the domestication that has been ingrained in us to survive this chaotic world. However, there is an underlying harmony which modern Quantum Mechanics is finally getting to understanding. The depths of string theory is more bizarre than any bag of mushrooms you ever ate, and a person could get just as mixed up and immortalized reading Stephen Hawkings as the Festus accused the Apostle Paul of being when he said, "You are mad Paul! Too much studying has driven you insane!"

The problem is not in the plants and potions, its in the absolute lack of restraint and supervision. People who just want to binge should invest in cheap tequila, plants are for different kinds of "freak outs" LSD, that shit is just crazy, I don't suppose there could be a shamanistic tradition properly oriented around it, its not organic, the trip is not navigable, it just takes to the edge of physical sensory perception and reminds you your everyday reality is really just a delightful story you've invented to describe the bombardment of senses perceptions just as you do in your mind's eye when you read a good novel. For that, LSD is good for folks who really need to wake up and live and see that its not all what the thought, but to be honesty, its a rather extreme way to do that, and there are not guarantees. I say stick with the naturals, and even then, only under expert supervision with honorable intentions.

The problem with today, is the kids ain't go no respect for it.

[floatingslowly]

it's been AGES since I've kicked in anybody's door, or say, sold stolen goods in the hallways of a school in order to fund a weekend's activities.

and by ages, I mean well past the statute of limitations, in case this thread is being perused by Agents of The Man.

ages.

[knox]

problem is we don't respect drugs enough.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by kinnikpasswordforgetter

you know, i have 2 MASSIVE replies half finished in 2 different windows to things people have said in this thread. and if i were to do it properly i'd have to write another few in response to yet more thing other people have now said.

this is tiring me out and its such a drain.

fucking message boards. people can answer you back. that's my first mistake.

If you find messageboards hard to deal with, I dread to think what sort of pussy you must be like in real life.

[EVOLghost]

Fuck salvia. smoke some pot.

[clockaddict]

Originally Posted by jonathan

Most (if not every) culture has used drugs to some extent, so to relativize drug use as something fundamentally unique to this culture is a bit of a stretch. I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying. I have also been recently liberated from the throws of excess, and I'm a much better person for it. That doesn't mean I don't take a hit of some weed every once in a while, or have a beer, but it's all about priorities and moderation. You're overlooking the anti-drug cultural hegemony that is totally blown out of proportion and tells horrendous half-truths about these drugs and their inherent risks.

I definitely agree, all drugs are risky when used excessively. I think honest drug information is exactly what is needed because a well-educated population is one that (theoretically) can make smart choices. I'm a little fucked up by my excessive weed use, I think, if not for all the years I spent listening to the Soft Machine in my room by myself, bowl in hand. I know people that have developed some anxiety issues that they're fairly certain are related to their weed use. I'm pretty sure I have as well. Regardless, had I used weed moderately (twice a week at the very most), I think I would be in a much better position. Same goes for booze. Hallucinageons are a different deal. Really, only certain people can use them successfully. I happen to be one of those people. I'm relatively stable and had overall positive experiences with them. At the same time, I never used them excessively (except salvia) so maybe I'm not one to talk.

The bottom line. Do your research. Know yourself. Moderation.

Agreed. However, moderation is a tricky thing for me now, I'm thinking it's not even worth trying. Just, why? Long ago, all the benefits wore off, and regardless of how stable I'm feeling now, I've never given myself any reason to believe i even can moderate. I like this new control I have, I'm at least aware of what's coming off bizarre to the rest of the world. Of course, i never was a recreational user, always a self-medicator, and turns out psychiatry actually DOES have something to offer. I'm not ruling anything out though, in the long run. But for now, I'm on probation, so fuck all that nonsense.
But I feel the same about psychedelics. Never craved them once. A good trip always left me satisfied. But you get out what you put in, so most kids are just getting brainfuls of shit from the stuff. For me, it just seems like a hassle and too much of a commitment right now.
Research isn't gonna save anyone with a real drug problem. It might prevent a few casualties (such as the aforementioned folks driving on salvia), but who wants them around anyway?

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by kinnikpasswordforgetter

well, you're not going to ever find out so don't worry.

anyway, i've had about enough of you. because that, that right there, really is about as good as it gets talking to you. you're nearly 50. whatever it was that went so drastically wrong, i don't care anymore. i'm putting you on ignore. good luck, i hope you find something better to do, but i doubt it. you're addicted to your own misery.

lol
Putting a 50 year old on ignore.

[keep poppin pimples]

i'm curious about this salvia stuff, never really done very many drugs tho so i don't know....

[Phlegmscope]

I took a few hits one night few years ago, but didn't feel much. I had one fit of laughter and a feeling of heavy headedness for a moment, but that's about it.
Dunno about the potency of the stuff, but the two other guys were basically rolling on the floor.

[Inhuman]

Originally Posted by kinnikpasswordforgetter

well, you're not going to ever find out so don't worry.

anyway, i've had about enough of you. because that, that right there, really is about as good as it gets talking to you. you're nearly 50. whatever it was that went so drastically wrong, i don't care anymore. i'm putting you on ignore. good luck, i hope you find something better to do, but i doubt it. you're addicted to your own misery.

I've rarely read a worthwhile post by him...youre not the only one

[knox]

Originally Posted by Inhuman

I've rarely read a worthwhile post by him...youre not the only one

agreed.

[floatingslowly]

getting into 'what constitutes a worthwhile post' is a slippery slope that most would lose horribly at (everyone but knox. she makes awesome posts).

I've also yet to ever use the ignore feature. when you do that, you let the terrorists win.

being american, I never let the terrorists win.

I bust in, in the middle of the night, using stealth helicopters and trained military dogs; I shoot your women and children, steal your thumbdrives and take you back to my secret torture prison, leading the world to believe you are dead and at the bottom of the ocean.

the ignore feature would hinder my psyOps.

all of that said, maybe if we all lined up and gave that big ol' bear a nice sweaty hug, he'd forget his unhappy days and smile his toothless grins once more.

d'awwwwwwwww

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

(everyone but knox. she makes awesome posts).

lol

[knox]

where is nik? i need to be entertained today.

my feet are cold.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by knox

where is nik? i need to be entertained today.

my feet are cold.

I imagine he's on the down phase of his manic-oppression.

[Inhuman]

Great advice hypertonic, you covered most of it there. Erowid's a good resource too, and as a volunteer, you have no idea how many submissions we get of people joking around with Salvia. Just because (in most places) it's widely available doesn't mean it's fun and games.