[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Quite the contrary, I try to apprehend the truth of the matter. Remember, I'm someone that can understand that there is no unresolvable ideological conflict between the theories of creationism and evolution. And germane to this "discussion" I can comprehend that both the political left and right have their own extremists. As was made clear earlier, you represent part of the left that unfortunately lends creedence to right wing labels like "the loony left." You believe in aliens building the pyramids, that we are actually in Iraq to lay claim to precious alien artifacts, and countless other loose notions based on nothing more than the regurgitation of psuedoresearch. Ideas which, (& this is the best case) are put forth by charlatans.

Is there no limit to how much you'll disrespect the truth with your cockeyed madness?

Hebrew slaves built the pyramids and there is still scholarly debate as to how exactly they were engineered. Your pyramids explanation is, therefore, decidedly anti-semitic and anti-scientific. Maybe that's where your fundamental disrespect of Einstein comes in too, I don't know.
And there are many other reasons to write about, but we're over in Iraq mainly because certain vested interests want to make and skim a lot of money and were able to mislead the American public as to the moral reasons we invaded.
And no, these are not, as you put it, "State Sanctioned Stories" and we're not there, as you explained, to unearth some invaluable alien technology.

So whereas you throw up that I'm presenting "State Sanctioned Stories" (apparently now I'm a CIA too haha just like Wikipedia), you, however, have been duped on many levels. You're being played by counterintelligence disinformation every day by your aforementioned (see last post) news media of choice (loony left talk show hosts, websites, etc.). You've been duped into believing a whole array of gobbledegook, and, in the process, you are quite simply one of those people that give the left a bad name.

Go start your own fringe party like the UFO or Vampire party, or more apropos perhaps, the Nihilist (haha) party, please, if you continue to refuse to return to any coherence.
But I suppose you'll answer that you don't believe in the political system or political parties at all anyway. Well, I suppose you may be one of those deranged militia people then because how else are you going to hope for a better future? Yeah, I know, life's tough and things are certainly fucked-up, and, you're right, the system is indeed corrupt and rotten to the core. Your instincts are very keen on that note. The only solution I see is that somehow we collectively drop all the histrionics. There has to be more public awareness and unity of action concerning our own ultimate rights as the electorate. We need a constitutional amendment to eliminate repeat terms of office and the system will be on its way to repair and career politicians will be a thing of the past.

_________________
The people of every country are the only safe guardians of their
own rights, and are the only instruments which can be used for
their destruction. And certainly they would never consent to be so
used were they not deceived. To avoid this they should be
instructed to a certain degree. - Thomas Jefferson to John Wyche,
1809.

The most effectual means of preventing the perversion of power
into tyranny are to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds
of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge
of those facts which history exhibits, that possessed thereby of
the experience of other ages and countries, they may be enabled to
know ambition under all its shapes, and prompt to exert their
natural powers to defeat its purposes.
- Thomas Jefferson
Diffusion of Knowledge Bill, 1779.

The general spread of the light of science has already laid open
to every view the palpable truth that the mass of mankind has not
been born with saddles on their backs, nor are a favored few, booted
and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately by the grace of God.
- Thomas Jefferson to Roger C. Weightman, 1826.

On the whole I agree with this, although I'm not convinced Tesla was being entirely serious about the reasons behind the war in Iraq in the first place.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Funny thing about your post too, tesla69, is that I was wondering when some crackpot would get on here and write about aliens building the pyramids. Oh, and thanks for throwing in that laugh riot about why were really in the Iraq war right now...to recover alien artifacts...haha...priceless.

You don't get it, antigravity technology is dangerous and must be suppressed. It is a National Security Issue. If you don't know about it I can't help your ignorance. If Saddam or any Arab wingnut faction had access to it we are fucked.

You also seem to show a rather reactionary understanding of multidimensional physics and consciousness and imply that any intelligence that might arrive here would have to have corpulance. Anyway, all your physics arguements are just scientific theory. I'm sure a few hundred years ago you would have supported the Catholics in hanging anyone who asserted the world was round because that is just madness. They used to call doctors who washed their hands before practice crazy too. And Tesla's AC - thats just crazy! Vision of madness. Ask Edison when he's through electrocuting animals to prove how dangerous it is.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

On the whole I agree with this, although I'm not convinced Tesla was being entirely serious about the reasons behind the war in Iraq in the first place.

Well, are you convinced yet?

(refer to his last post where he confirms his madness)

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Well, are you convinced yet?

(refer to his last post where he confirms his madness)

I also believe the Chinese communists have taken over the US Govt by using facial transplant technology to replace the elected leaders.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by tesla69

I also believe the Chinese communists have taken over the US Govt by using facial transplant technology to replace the elected leaders.

That's nice.

...from anti-freeze in toothpaste and poison in livestock feed to a "Face/Off" haha.

Nice try in downplaying the ridiculousness with jumping-the-shark ridiculousness.

You gotta relish those moments of extreme-cheese on a message board where every word is documented right there for all that care to see, and someone gets caught propagating bullshit. Inevitably, they usually seem to backtrack with a claim that they were only joking or give some disjointed account as to why they only half-meant it.

And that leads myself to think. I truly never intended to disrupt the UFO thread, Brett, to each their own, but I kept seeing all these posts challenging me. If one doesn't like what I write, don't comment too overtly disrespectfully. Let it fucking stand and I will stand down.

As I explained much earlier and hopefully clearly enough, I do believe that some people definitely see things in the sky that are unidentified flying objects. Where I differ from most of the UFO enthusiasts is that I do not believe, the truth be completely revealed, in alien lifeforms coming to this planet or in the existence of complex intelligent alien lifeforms pretty much in general.

[max]

First off, too bad you left out your middle finger when you re-edited this one. At least stand up to your aggressiveness... to see what brings back. Afraid of consequences?

Secondly, get the facts straight:

Tesla:
"ah yes you posted the approved story from CIApedia."

Atari:
Maybe you can write Wikipedia directly to let them know that you are a crusader against their organization for being a puppet of the CIA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us

The News:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...42896020070816

By Randall Mikkelsen
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - People using CIA and FBI computers have edited entries in the online encyclopedia Wikipedia on topics including the Iraq war and the Guantanamo prison, according to a new tracing program.
The changes may violate Wikipedia's conflict-of-interest guidelines, a spokeswoman for the site said on Thursday.
The program, WikiScanner, was developed by Virgil Griffith of the Santa Fe Institute in New Mexico and posted this month on a Web site that was quickly overwhelmed with searches.
The program allows users to track the source of computers used to make changes to the popular Internet encyclopedia where anyone can submit and edit entries.
WikiScanner revealed that CIA computers were used to edit an entry on the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. A graphic on casualties was edited to add that many figures were estimated and were not broken down by class.
Another entry on former CIA chief William Colby was edited by CIA computers to expand his career history and discuss the merits of a Vietnam War rural pacification program that he headed.
Aerial and satellite images of the U.S. prison for terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, were removed using a computer traced to the FBI, WikiScanner showed.
CIA spokesman George Little said he could not confirm whether CIA computers were used in the changes, adding that "the agency always expects its computer systems to be used responsibly."
The FBI did not have an immediate response.

[max]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

And that leads myself to think. I truly never intended to disrupt the UFO thread, Brett, to each their own, but I kept seeing all these posts challenging me.

challenging you? ah!

[max]

how mature, dude. how coherent. how clever.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by tesla69

You don't get it, antigravity technology is dangerous and must be suppressed. It is a National Security Issue. If you don't know about it I can't help your ignorance. If Saddam or any Arab wingnut faction had access to it we are fucked.

Fuck. Does that make Marty McFly's Hoverboard in Back to the Future Part II a weapon of mass destruction?

 

This has to be the most bizarre justification for war I've ever heard. And believe me, I've heard some bizarre ones.

[max]

It certainly helped make the movie look one of the most incredible ones back in the day... Michael J Fox rules.

[atari 2600]

tesla69's fascination with anti-gravity technology stems from his, like many nutjobs, overindulgence in literature and hearsay about Hitler and the Nazis. That's my educated guess, and I've seen him write as much in the past. UFO people are often Hitler-junkies.
It's their rumor that Hitler's air force had anti-gravity technology.

But let's stick to the the known facts for a moment before we revisit that territory.

Hitler's Air Force did, in fact, develop the first jet fighers (not the first jet planes, but the first jet fighters & other militaries were already in their own stages of jet fighter development, however) and that's perhaps where the whole fantasy of his engineers creating flying saucers comes in...and how the Germans originally got the technology---from aliens---is yet another twisted variant.

But, for the Germans, the jet fighters came too late in the war, and the one that looked most stealthy and flying saucer-like, the advanced Horton
Ho IX Gotha Go 229, never even flew one mission. The U.S. was already doing extensive bombing raids into Germany and crippling the Nazis by that time. In fact, all Hitler could hope to do to avoid his end was create a special flying unit called the ELBA who would run suicide missions, ala Japanese kamikazes in the war going on in the Pacific, to ram U.S. bombers.

Also, it's important to note that Szilard convinced Einstein to sign his name to the world-changing letter to U.S. President Roosevelt precisely because a scientific article was published that showed that the German scientists were working with Uranium-235, and Szilard figured, quite correctly, that this research could potentially be adapted to invent new nuclear-powered weapons. Well, although German scientists were in fact working on this project before anyone, it was "Einstein's Letter" that eventually (it took several attempts at coaxing FDR) set up The Manhattan Project and ended with our dropping the A-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. The Germans were already defeated by that time, but it just goes to show how runaway wartime paranoia can make governments and scientists believe all sorts of things about the enemy's capabilities and how this plays into (& can be politically manipulated into) the establishment of defense budgets accordingly. It's sad to note (because of all the later evident financial corruption), but the whole military-industrial complex as we know it was born out of WWII and The Manhattan Project.

So the facts tell us no, the Nazis did not have anti-grav tech. This does seems to be something, however, that the looniest among us arrogantly take as an unquestionable fact; they believe that after we captured Germany, America and the Allies got the technology. I think it's hogwash and that the closest we have are modern attack helicopters and also the Harrier Jump Jet which was first engineered by the British in the sixties. It seems feasible, therefore, that perhaps UFOs are Top Secret dressed-out next-generation Harriers, or in some cases, projections from Top Secret next-gen Harriers.
And if you don't think that's possible then you probably are not familiar with the state-of-the-art technology the U.S. currently is sporting with the F-22 Raptor.

So Hitler probably didn't have anti-gravity. What he did have is a murderous fascist dictatorship largely modelled after Christianity with the Nazi Blood Flag ritual. Hitler consciously aped Christianity whilst banning it (he also banned Modern Art); he saw his state religion as simply a means to an end to motivate his minions as they toiled in the factories and on the battlefields, and this coupled with the holocaust and the exterminations of millions of Jews has, and perhaps understandably so, garned him a reputation as the Anti-Christ or some sort of prototype of the Anti-Christ. He was indeed evil and deranged, but this is yet another myth about Hitler that people still hold on to with all manner of invented and exagerrated notions.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

...nutjobs...

Good word. I've never heard a non-Brit use it before.

[max]

 

"Books about... 08.18.2007 03:45 PM atari 2600 how mature, dude. how coherent. how clever.

[max]

and all this while mr. leatherneck digs up old posts to... cover up the ciapedia thing, or what?

[max]

not to mention the disappearance of that kind, cool post in which 3 middle fingers from atari were pointed at me... you really are one of a kind, man. stand to your actions and take responsibility for what you type.

[Norma J]

Don't take things so seriously............................... GEEZ, guys.

[max]

why not?

[atari 2600]

Oh wow, lookee here, I found this:
http://www.stardock.com/products/blognavigator/
It's written by someone with some good sense.


Is there alien intelligent life in the universe?


The odds of UFOs and aliens visiting earth seem remote


By Draginol
Posted Monday, January 12, 2004 on Opinionated Techie
Discussion: Science & Tech

I often talk to people who are convinced that that aliens are visiting our planet. They believe in UFOs. Having thought about it, I've concluded that it's highly unlikely that we're being visited by aliens.

It's not that I don't think there is intelligent life in the universe. Space is big. Very big. And there are trillions of worlds in this universe and so statistically it seems pretty likely there are intelligent beings on other planets.

(ed. I'm less optimistic concerning this point than the author. Carl Sagan may have warned us all about nuclear winter, but on this subject he and SETI and all the rest are wrong. I think there are obviously a multitude of lifeforms scattered throughout the universe, but not complex intelligent life. And you, if you are a disagreeable reader, are free to call this short-sighted arrogance on my part; I, however, call it an informed opinion.)

But how close would these beings be?

(ed. The author doesn't explore in any detail about Einstein or relativity, but does proceed to offer some perceptive observations concerning evolution.)

One of the great misconceptions about evolution is that intelligent life, such as humans, is inevitable. It's not. In fact, consider this: In the something like 3 billion years that the Earth has existed, humans are the only ecomorph that could have built a civilization.
Let's talk about ecomorphs first. An ecomorph is a general bodily shape. Pick a time in history and odds are the same ecomorphs will appear. Eliminate mammals and reptiles from a habitat and eventually you will end up with birds that will fill all the ecomorphs. Hard to believe? It's happened countless times. New Zealand was once totally dominated by birds who filled in all the common ecomorphs. Mammals and reptiles failed to colonize New Zealand because of its relative isolation. Over time, these birds evolved to form the common ecomorphs (flying predators, land based predators, land based herbivores, etc.). We think of birds as feathered flying things because that is the one ecomorph that this particular class of animal has successfully dominated. But take away the mammals and reptiles from say North America, give some time, and you'll end up with herds of large animals that are essentially flightless birds.
Some ecomorphs show up again and again. Vultures, for instance, are on every continent even though genetically they have nothing in common. They are simply two types of birds that evolved to fill that niche (the flying carrion eater). It's really the niche that determines the ecomorph.
Which brings us back to our friends the humans. Humans have a few very unusual traits amongst animals. Traits that are all required in order to have built civilization (as we know it anyway). The first trait is obvious - large brains. Brains, however, are not very advantageous until they get to a certain point. They consume a great deal of energy and thus require a lot of food to power. That energy has to deliver something pretty useful in exchange or the species quickly becomes extinct. A large brain on its own isn't enough. Dolphins have reasonably large brains and they're not likely to be colonizing space any time soon. This brings us to the second particularly unusual trait amongst humans - our arms (not hands, we'll get to that). Consider every animal you can think of in the history of the world. How many can perform the simple duty of reaching back and touching their own backs? In the 3+ billion years that life of some sort has existed on this planet, only primates have evolved to be able to do that. What a fantastical coincidence that primates happened to be blessed not just with this truly unique ability but also have large brains? And don't kid yourself, the two did not evolve together. These two things were happy coincidence that led to the final and most important and unique trait for humans.

The last and most important trait that is unique to humans and yet required to build a civilization is our hands. Once again, out of the billions of species of animals that have existed on this planet, only humans have hands this dexterous.

(ed. The author is, of course, referring to the evolution of opposable thumbs in modern homo sapiens.)

Not even our primate cousins can do as much with their hands as we can. Forget our huge brains for a second. Our hands on their own are truly unique. We can make things with our hands. Of course, making things with our hands would mean nothing without our large brains. But having one does not necessarily mean the other would evolve. Give a gazelle a large brain and it's still lion food. Give it our hands and it's still going to get chowed down too.In other words, humans aren't just unique for our large brains. There are 3 different wholly unique aspects to humans that in all the history of our planet never evolved as an ecomorph before. The dinosaurs roamed the earth from 300 million years ago to 65 million years ago. Did any of them have the ability to reach behind their heads? Did any of them have hands that could grasp and manipulate anything? Did any of them have particularly large brains? No. The closest you get are the raptors who are probably only as smart as a mid level mammal (despite what Jurassic Park may make you think). And they weren't scratching their backs with their claws.

And consider the unlikeliness that mammals are the dominate species at all. If it weren't for a meteor hitting the earth precisely 65 million years ago there's nothing to say that dinosaurs wouldn't still be masters of this planet and our ancestors still being small rodents on the edge of extinction.

(ed. Also omitted by this author, but extremely important to consider is the cataclysm that created our very unique and proportionately extremely large moon due to a collision billions of years ago. And of course, obviously the relative mass of the Earth proportionate to the nearest star and the distance of our planet from the nearest star is also of noteworthy significance.)

So what does this have to do with aliens? A lot actually. You see, while we can debate all day whether life may exist elsewhere in this galaxy or universe, the real question comes down to what are the odds of intelligent life existing. Even if you manage to get life going in the first place somehow, and even if they somehow manage some sort of sexual reproduction or equivalent, you aren't anywhere close to having intelligent life. And I suspect just getting complex life requires a number of exceedingly unlikely events to occur. And it seems pretty obvious that getting to intelligent life requires a set of remarkable coincidences that are so unique and so unlikely that it's not something we're likely to find on even 1 out of a billion planets that already have complex life.
Which doesn't rule out intelligent life. Like I said, space is big. But that's also the problem. Space is very very big. And so if there is other intelligent life out there, the odds are that it is very very far away.
And if it is really that far, it just doesn't seem likely that they would use their trans-galactic-warp engines to buzz hicks on farms like a bunch of rowdy teens taking out dad's car. I think the more likely scenario is that intelligent life is simply too far away for us to realistically ever come in contact with. Then again, I could be wrong. And if so, I'll be the first to welcome our hyper-intelligent space ant overlords.

(ed. haha

 

 

)

[hotbutterknives]

but,what...if...they...came...from...another...dim ension.....................

[atari 2600]

delusional nutjobs that have seen giant UFOs.


http://www.nicap.org/lockufoinc.htm

 

Notes

[1] The Lockheed case came to my attention through a reference in Mike Hall's and Wendy Connors' book "Summer of the Saucers." Hall and Connors, in turn, had learned of it from one of veteran UFO historian Loren Gross's invaluable monographs. I was intrigued by the unusual sketch of the UFO that accompanied the report and was curious as to which Lockheed engineer was responsible. The Hall-Connors version of the story was drawn from the "sanitized" Blue Book files released to the public in the 1970s in which the identities of the witnesses had been obscured. Mike Hall kindly provided the Blue Book microfilm roll containing the file. Mary Castner of CUFOS gave indispensable assistance in this project, and Brad Sparks's encyclopedic knowledge of the CIA's interaction with UFOs, FOIA releases and general UFO history led to recovery of unsanitized versions of the Blue Book case file which contained vital information. This article would not exist without their outstanding cooperation.
[2] Extensive declassified documentation on CIA's interaction with UFOs makes it clear that Phil Strong was the Agency's point man on the issue as late as 1962. While Pocock states that he considers it unlikely that Strong was Johnson's source of information concerning the Air Force reconnaissance project (and other Lockheed officials already knew of it), senior CIA official Robert Amory recalled that this was the case. In any event, Johnson clearly had close ties with Strong, who was moving in rather interesting circles. Strong had links with strategic reconnaissance studies such as the 1952 MIT/Lincoln Laboratory "Beacon Hill" project and the reconnaissance panel of the USAF Scientific Advisory Board. At the same time, he was involved with CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence UFO research. See http://www/foia.ucia.gov/
[3] Wimmer and Ware would be crew members on early flights of another famous Lockheed product, the C-130 Hercules, in 1954.
[4] According to a former senior aerospace management official who knew Johnson, USAF Chief of Staff General Hoyt Vandenberg had given a briefing to the heads of the major aviation companies circa 1948 in which he emphasized the Air Force’s continuing concern with UFOs and its ongoing investigation of reports. [5] To UFO researchers, who know of tens of thousands of sighting reports, this controversial claim seems absurd on its face, but it may be a matter of semantics and perspective. Former CIA photo analyst Dino Brugioni states that he was one of the liaison points between the U-2 program and Air Force UFO investigators. Brugioni claimed that airline pilot reports that might have been stimulated by early U-2 development flights in the Nevada area circa 1955-6 were referred to him by certain AQUATONE-cleared Air Force personnel. He would check flight plans and inform the Air Force investigators of probable "hits." From CIA’s point of view, many UFO reports that it learned of via this highly selective channel were caused by the U-2.