[Pookie]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Im not trolling actually, but i will answer you on Friday or saturday when ive had enough to drink to be bored enough to care about this futile conversaton

Fuck off then and leave the decent conversation to the grown ups. Apparently there's pictures of a royal with her tits out on t'internet if you're bored.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

The whole issue of Iraq is a lot more complicated pf course-- BUsh negotiated the agreements but his party was very much for staying in Iraq
Cheney: http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...raq/?mobile=nc
Bush's national security advisor: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...bFK_story.html
McCain: http://thepage.time.com/2011/12/14/r...ccain-on-iraq/

is that enough to show the difference you think?

No. All this shows is a party attempting to paint Obama as weak on foreign policy even though he is largely just continuing their policies (just saw this). The main difference between Obama (and co.) and Bush (and co.) is in approach. Obama would never have reacted to 9/11 by promising to find those responsible and "kick their ass". His response would have been way more calm and articulate but would he have done the same as Bush? Absolutely.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ON the domestic agenda, no contest-- President Willard would bring more austerity of the kind that's wrecking the British economy and social fabric.

Tell me about it! !!!- for what it's worth.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

So yeah, I get enraged when people say "it's the same". It's not the fucking same. The world is not clearly divided between the goodies and the baddies--we're all assholes of varying degrees, some worse than others, and the choice matters because it moves the needle of what's "normal" a little bit to one side or the other. And that counts for something today and in the long run.

Not sure I agree 100% but I certainly wouldn't ever exclude myself from the political process because of its inadequacies. For example as much as I find myself angered by Labour's lack of response to the Tory government's mixture of dogma and incompetence and as much as they angered me when in power because of their many pro-corporation policies, I would have them back in power tomorrow if I could.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Pookie

I'll answer more fully later but in the meantime this stood out to me. The "precision" (lol) killing isn't an alternative to carpet bombing and invasion forces, it's an accompaniment. If anything the "precision" (rofl) killing is an alternative to the indefinite detention of alleged terrorists. And so being is by far the greater of two evils, especially as the "precision" (ffs) killing has claimed the innocent lives of at least 15 times the number of intended targets killed.

it's an accompaniment in afghanistan but not in pakistan-- i can't imagine what a clusterfuck would be if the US went to invade pakistan. even in afghanistan the drones are an alternative to troops that not just kill civilians but also urinate on corpses. at least drones don't have bladders.

here's a bit on the plans to invade pakistan-- a nuclear power for fucks sakes:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-m..._b_600014.html

but yeah it's a shit situation no matter how you cut it. i just think the more rationality can be brought into the process the greater the chances for some sort of a temporary truce of the kind desperate people call "peace". if the pentagon is using drones because they think it's their best option, i might disagree, they have their own internal disagreements too== but if they are using drones because "it's the hammer of the gods, as fulfilling the prophecies of Ragnar 2, verse 36" that would be another fucking story.

Originally Posted by Pookie

No. All this shows is a party attempting to paint Obama as weak on foreign policy even though he is largely just continuing their policies (just saw this). The main difference between Obama (and co.) and Bush (and co.) is in approach. Obama would never have reacted to 9/11 by promising to find those responsible and "kick their ass". His response would have been way more calm and articulate but would he have done the same as Bush? Absolutely.

on afghanistan, sure-- but iraq??? the iraq invasion was a neocon wet dream!!! completely manufactured. no fucking way. just-- no.

painting obama as weak is part of politicking of course but it's a proven fact that the republicans are much more grandiose and deluded when it comes to the international arena.

Originally Posted by Pookie

This is interesting (not intended as a direct response to your points but on a similar subject):

Closer Than You Think: Top 15 Things Romney and Obama Agree On

some of this makes a point and some of it is bullshit but that's too much to discuss on a tuesday morning.

Originally Posted by Pookie

Tell me about it! !!!- for what it's worth.
Not sure I agree 100% but I certainly wouldn't ever exclude myself from the political process because of its inadequacies. For example as much as I find myself angered by Labour's lack of response to the Tory government's mixture of dogma and incompetence and as much as they angered me when in power because of their many pro-corporation policies, I would have them back in power tomorrow if I could.

here's larry summers on the subject. yes he may be a shill for the banks or whatever, and he said insensitive things about women, bla bla bla, he's not Jesus Christ IV, but he's a competent nerd:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...a4a_story.html

like you with labor, i'm pissed off at the obama administration for many reasons, from domestic espionage to not standing up with enough force against the republicans in the budget battles, but to claim that another obama term vs. having romney bring his incompetent self plus his coterie of right wing lunatics would be the same thing-- and therefore one shouldn't bother voting as suchfriends claims-- is just... well... fucking retarded.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

since you ask

over the years, i've worked on things like:

- human rights (got tired of sending letters to governments and other shit)
- labor organization
- war protests (not just marching but organizing)
- rural electrification (satisfying, but not without side effects)
- voter registration (yeah, you don't approve, you prefer emperor-messiahs)
- affordable housing at municipal & state level
- university politics (both college + grad school... both largely pointless, but good for the experience)
- environmental crap. both advocacy and fieldwork.
- public health seems to be a recurrent theme. i'm currently involved in this through work and i can see the value of federal policy as it trickles to the community level.
- other shit i can't remember at this hour, fuck, i had a long day at work.

Thank you for your resume, and while at this current time we don't have any position openings, we will keep you in our applicant pool for future consideration

i've seen with my own eyes that people are rotten everyehwere, and they are good everywhere. the "machine" operates at every level, local work is connected with local politics and it goes up the chain to city, state, national, international, and everybody has a fucking ego, wants more power, has issues.

still, there are people who do, and there are people who just whine about it from the sidelines. fuck your useless good for nothing "nihilism". if things are so bad do something about it instead of crying like an internet bitch. stop trying to be a saint and a prophet and fucking do something instead.

You can call me a bitch, and you can pretend I only do this on the internet, but as you've pointed out from your experience, you and me both know I'm right on this. What I have been antagonizing on this thread is not the obvious reality of the ineptitude and inherent corruption of our political machinery, rather, its that folks like you who damn well know better still seem to shrug your shoulders can carry on perpetuating the myths. I know, you're tempted to believe them, they seem so very real, but as you've said, from your very real experience you know they are just that, myths. There is some truth to myth, and fact sometimes more truth in myth than fact. However, in this instance, the substance is the opposite. I applaud what you've done, keep it up, but stop being counter-productive to your own successes by promoting lame ass political partisanship and bullshit political jingoism and fear mongering
You can badger me all you like, it won't make me feel bad or suddenly vote for Barack, it only makes me wonder how you manage to live inside your own head with all that cognitive dissonance..

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Thank you for your resume, and while at this current time we don't have any position openings, we will keep you in our applicant pool for future consideration

why don't you get a position yourself, mr. all-talk-and-no-show bongwater oracle?

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

it only makes me wonder how you manage to live inside your own head with all that cognitive dissonance..

Let's talk about your Jesus II:

It is ironic that Selassie liked to project an image of himself to the world of a kind, tolerant and benevolent soul, yet those in his country who detracted from this image were usually executed.

[...]

Haile Selassie was not God or a great reformer; but a callous, greedy, thieving autocrat, who should be remembered for the murdering leech that he was.

http://www.afed.org.uk/org/issue48/haile.html

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

You've also read Willard's latest statements on the Middle East I'm sure.

"All right, we have a potentially volatile situation but we sort of live with it, and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

why don't you get a position yourself, mr. all-talk-and-no-show bongwater oracle?


Let's talk about your Jesus II:

It is ironic that Selassie liked to project an image of himself to the world of a kind, tolerant and benevolent soul, yet those in his country who detracted from this image were usually executed.

[...]

Haile Selassie was not God or a great reformer; but a callous, greedy, thieving autocrat, who should be remembered for the murdering leech that he was.

http://www.afed.org.uk/org/issue48/haile.html

It surprises me that you would denigrate yourself to such immature and petty nonsense. Yes, HIM Haile Selassie is a complicated figure in history, and I am glad that you have enough sense to point out the contradiction, but in this instance, its not applicable, because true, you can try to discredit me as a speaker, but what I am saying stands true beyond any questions of my credibility. The fact that you've gotten so defensive that essentially you just put out a Super-PAC TV-AD style hit on me should embarrass you.
Let me reiterate the point, all bongs aside.

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I applaud what you've done, keep it up, but stop being counter-productive to your own successes by promoting lame ass political partisanship and bullshit political jingoism and fear mongering

[floatingslowly]

I have deep issues with certain aspects of Obomber's policies, but my absolute fundamental disgust toward pea-brained Romney is so great that I will, once again, vote Donkey this November.

I wasn't going to vote at all, because I very deeply believe your country to be beyond all hope of saving, and I know, that in Texas, voting Donkey is next to spitting in ocean, but I cannot conscientiously abstain from voting against the white devil.

That man-beast, and his cockamamie beliefs, would scorch the planet in the pursuit of 'prophecy'.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

I have issues with certain aspects of Obomber's policies, but my absolute fundamental disgust toward pea-brained Romney is so great that I will, once again vote Donkey this November.

I wasn't going to vote at all, because I very deeply believe your country to be beyond all hope of saving, and I know, that in Texas, voting Donkey is next to spitting in ocean, but I cannot conscientiously abstain from voting against the white devil.

That man-beast, and his cockamamie beliefs, would scorch the planet in the pursuit of 'prophecy'.

See, that is precisely the problem. You sir, are a robot, and so you don't have feelings, I understand how you can come to that conclusion. But !@#$%!, I've known him for years, and what is the saddest thing about Obama is that he has duped and lured so many bright, optimistic, and activist young adults into his flock to absolutely gut and disenfranchise them, removing all power. So many people I know are like !@#$%!, they are so intelligent, so active in their communities, usually so level-headed and speak such capital "T" Truths. Then they throw it all away by diving into this pointless political partisanship. Good cop bad cop is not a game that makes the cops any better, it only makes the citizens all the more deceived by the desperation of the circumstances..

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

See, that is precisely the problem. You sir, are a robot, and so you don't have feelings, I understand how you can come to that conclusion. But !@#$%!, I've known him for years, and what is the saddest thing about Obama is that he has duped and lured so many bright, optimistic, and activist young adults into his flock to absolutely gut and disenfranchise them, removing all power. So many people I know are like !@#$%!, they are so intelligent, so active in their communities, usually so level-headed and speak such capital "T" Truths. Then they throw it all away by diving into this pointless political partisanship. Good cop bad cop is not a game that makes the cops any better, it only makes the citizens all the more deceived by the desperation of the circumstances..

im not flocking and i don't believe in man-gods like you do-- voting democrat is voting for a slightly less-crazy world, is all. get real, preacher.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

im not flocking and i don't believe in man-gods like you do-- voting democrat is voting for a slightly less-crazy world, is all. get real, preacher.

"Everywhere I go, 'they holla keep it real G,' and my reply, 'till they kill me, act up if ya feel me' "

That's real democratic of you, attack a person's faith because you know you can't attack the substance of their argument because you also know your own argument for blindly kowtowinig to poisonous political partisanship and jingoism also lacks any substance to speak of..


Alas, it comes back to this voting myth. We had these chats in 2004 and 2008, in that regard I suppose I am just kicking around a dead horse to breath in the stench of decay and have a pity party. I will leave you alone to your cognitive dissonance, but in 2013 when Mitt Obama takes over the way Barack W.H. Bush II took over in 09, then who will you have to blame? Oh right, yourself

[floatingslowly]

It's more like so-so cop vs theocratic fucktard.

Obama may not be optimal, but he's far less likely to bathe you in nuclear fire.

Mark my words, thempresidentsbedangerous, Romney will bring untold woe.

Me? I'll be underground, laughing, and content that I tried.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

It's more like so-so cop vs theocratic fucktard.

Obama may not be optimal, but he's far less likely to bathe you in nuclear fire.
.

You think that? Maybe you need to update your operating system or debug or something

[floatingslowly]

A glowing wasteland awaits your inaction.

Remember this moment as you watch your city burn.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

A glowing wasteland awaits your inaction.

Remember this moment as you watch your city burn.

Voting is the definition of inaction if not accompanied by direct community involvement. I just prefer to skip out on the voting middle-man and keep working in the community.

In regards to my city, its our city, and I'd like to see those fuckers try. The only people who are ever going to burn Los Angeles is LA itself, and we've surely had a good go at it twice yet

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I just prefer to skip out on the voting middle-man and keep working in the community.

so can we please get to the point and hear what kind of community work have you actually done?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

so can we please get to the point and hear what kind of community work have you actually done?

Haha. this is the internet holmes, I ain't posting my resume. That was a rhetorical question, just because you answered it doesn't mean I am going to be naive enough to give ammo about my actual life to haters. You can either take my word that work daily in the community through all the less political channels we've been discussing, or you won't, but having an internet pissing contest isn't going to help any of us. Besides, whether I put my own resume up or not will not persuade you one way or the other, it will only make me look all the more sillier for exposing myself like that playboy

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Haha. this is the internet holmes, I ain't posting my resume. That was a rhetorical question, just because you answered it doesn't mean I am going to be naive enough to give ammo about my actual life to haters. You can either take my word that work daily in the community through all the less political channels we've been discussing, or you won't, but having an internet pissing contest isn't going to help any of us. Besides, whether I put my own resume up or not will not persuade you one way or the other, it will only make me look all the more sillier for exposing myself like that playboy

the reason i ask you about it is not out of interest in your personal life but it's because i seriously doubt that you have actually done anything in the real world.

the reason i have that doubt is because you create a false dichotomy between "pure, authentic" community work and "corrupt, shitstem" larger politics.

that dichotomy is bullshit, fake, not real, hot air and empty theory, and anyone who has ever gotten into any kind of community involvement knows that, but you clearly don't. so i must conclude you have zero real experience. or maybe two weeks, tops.

you talk the talk. yeah, you're good at rhetoric.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the reason i ask you about it is not out of interest in your personal life but it's because i seriously doubt that you have actually done anything in the real world.

the reason i have that doubt is because you create a false dichotomy between "pure, authentic" community work and "corrupt, shitstem" larger politics.

that dichotomy is bullshit, fake, not real, hot air and empty theory, and anyone who has ever gotten into any kind of community involvement knows that, but you clearly don't. so i must conclude you have zero real experience. or maybe two weeks, tops.

you talk the talk. yeah, you're good at rhetoric.

 

You can believe whatever you'd like, you already believe in several concurrent fairy tales, why not add your self-aggrandizing assertions about my own credibility to the list