[SONIC GAIL]

When I was in College, my Music Theory Profesor once said that " The Beatles are not REAL Music" To sum up the underlying meaning of that comment he was stating that in his opinion the only real music is Classical or Jazz. This excludes pretty much all of today's music and at least over a hundred years of musical progression that has evolved over this period.

What do you think? Is Classical the only REAL music? Is all Rock n Roll crap? Is Punk Trash? Does pop suck? Is Folk just 2 chords and no brains? Are the bands that we love and respect as serious musicians just making uneducated noise?

My Opinion: That professor has a narrow mind that is encrusted with the shit of the world. I absolutely love classical music, for the fact that I was classicaly trained. I have to admit though that it bores me at times. What is often overlooked is the classical influence that bands over the generations integrated in with thier own style. I have much more respect for them than some composer trying to pump out the same old Mozart style Score that has reused for centuries.
And I have to say that this is one of the reasons that I love Sonic Youth they have managed to take what most consider to be racket and mesh it into "Real Music"
To me music is not about how many notes you know, how fast you can play or even how outrageous you are. Real music is most often simple and arises out of pain and sometimes joy. Real music is hearing what someone is feeling and feeling it with them.
Music is a spirituality that brings you closer to god and you're inner being. It's also quite fun to have around when you get trashed and need to get some of that little troubled girl out of your system.

[static-harmony]

That professor has the same mentality of every music professor I have ever had.

[SYRFox]

La musique, c'est du bruit qui pense (Victor Hugo)
(roughly translates to Music is a thinking noise)

I think the whole point of Real Music / Fake Music is pretty ridiculous. The most trivial definition of music is "Music is an art form consisting of sound and silence expressed through time." (thanks wikipedia). The fact that there would be "fake music" implies that this music would not consist of sound and silence quite a nonsensical statement indeed.

I think people who listen to styles of music that could be considered as more "elaborated" (e.g. classical music, prog rock, etc) - because there are more layers, more solos, more technicity involved, etc - tend to overlook over styles, because, precisely, they seem less elaborated. But:
1) because they're "less elaborated" does not mean they're better or worse: it's all about emotion, feeling. You could shake people to tears with a 2 minutes track based on two chords, or a simple pad, or just a loop, etc, and you could bore people to death with a super constructed 30 minutes tracks involving multiple directionless ultra technical solos
2) even "elaborated" is a matter of opinion, actually: everything is subjective. A lot of people tend to think that technicity is a sign of elaboration; I don't: because one is able to recite a super technic pattern he's learnt in his 8th year in conservatoire does not mean he's doing anything elaborated. On the other hand, I remember showing some ultra layered noise track to some people two years ago, and they thought it was just an attempt at recreating the noise of a plane's reactor taking off - and definitely not music -, while I thought it was fantasticly constructed and gorgeous, a great composition. There's no right or wrong.

So, basically, everything is music, in a sense. There are records of pure silence, or fields recordings, or doors screeching, etc ; yet they're music. Music is what you want it to be. There's no such thing as "real" or "false" music

--

edit: damn, it's been a while since i last posted something that long

[Seandi]

My friend who is a professor of composition at a major Midwestern university thinks SY's Flower is some of the best shit ever recorded.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Funny, if I was a professor I would be saying how the beatles are the only real music.

Even though I don't fully mean that. Obviously I'm on a SY forum.

But bands that mix classical techniques and rock music, and don't sound like Muse, are where it's at.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Beatles did it alot and Beach Boys in terms of song structure and melody.

Sonic Youth actually does it, in the sense of their music can transform into something else so quickly, but still fit. Like intense classical in violent movies that has that industrial vibe, Sonic youth to me is best described by Lydia Lunch "Tornadoes, Volcanoes, Earthquakes".

[MellySingsDoom]

What on earth would have the "professor" made of ethnic/folk music, both massive influences on jazz and classical? Good lawd!

Music is music if it moves you emotionally or viscerally, which covers all genres. Dumistrescu's music moves me in a different way to, say, John Coltrane or Throbbing Gristle or GZA, but it's the impact on me that counts. Of course the Beatles are "real" music, whether one likes them or not is something else.

I'd be interested to see what Glice thinks on this, in the whole "Classical = Real Music" sense.

[wellcharge]

obviously the "real music" thing is always stupid, it's all sounds rhythm and melodies at the end of the day and that's that

if there was only one sort of real music it would be improvised folklore, and not heavily rehearsed orchestral bizness as far as i see it

Strange, classical music could be considered less 'real', if you think like a twat, since pop/rock/blah blah is way more heard than that genre.

[pbradley]

Your professor is just angry that he has no objective criteria to which he can classify good music. He's in denial.

[Toilet & Bowels]

music academics that i've met are some of the most willfully ignorant people around, they don't have a fucking clue what's going on in the world.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by pbradley

You're professor is just angry that he has no objective criteria to which he can classify good music.

yes, & thusly he's probably worried about being exposed as a fraud or something

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

them ask I why I play music........

Music is the Most High!

 

[Glice]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Your professor is just angry that he has no objective criteria to which he can classify good music. He's in denial.

The thing is, classical music is the only form that spends an awful lot of time deciding not what is 'good' and 'bad' but 'how do we describe this?'.

I wouldn't agree with what the Professor's saying, but I do think it's massively important to not conflate narratives (and, sometimes, it's massively important to conflate narratives).

Ultimately, people pontificating about music (hi) will generally spend more time doing so than actually making music, whether good or bad. I have a strong sense that I wouldn't be talking shite on the internet if I was Ligeti OR Joey Ramone.

Personally, I venerate classical for entirely different reasons to why I like Happy Hardcore or Ragga. I can entirely understand where the professor is coming from, and I think it's very important that people hold up that position, but it's not for me. However, it's very much a straw man for SYG, methinks.

[demonrail666]

I'm sure this professor must've provided some criteria as to what qualified as 'real' in music. I simply don't believe he or she simply stood there and made such a claim without basing it on something.

[Glice]

I can only imagine that the context is more than enough. I think if you're in a composition class it's more difficult to qualify the Beatles as 'real' music than it is to agree they're not 'real'.

I find it interesting that this professor considers jazz 'real' though. Because that position has long since struck me as an artificial construction upon the classical narrative.

Originally Posted by Glice

Ultimately, people pontificating about music (hi) will generally spend more time doing so than actually making music, whether good or bad. I have a strong sense that I wouldn't be talking shite on the internet if I was Ligeti OR Joey Ramone.

It depends. V/VM regularly posts on his forum, the guy from Pink Reason does that too on another forum, and also Jay Reatard, plus William Bennett seems to be on facebook every time I log in, Alec Empire literally posted on the same site that he loved chatting about the recording of his latest album etc etc. I used to think something similar to that, then it started making no sense whatsoever, since chatting on forums/networking sites isn't going to take away any motivation that you might have to make records, if you really have any.

Pauline Oliveros is a serial poster too!

[terriblecanyons]

Heh, real music. Real music to me is something that moves you, that can change your mood completely and make you dance like a fucking crazy idiot or sob in a corner.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'm sure this professor must've provided some criteria as to what qualified as 'real' in music. I simply don't believe he or she simply stood there and made such a claim without basing it on something.